I would like to nominate The Front Page for the 'Best Live Venue' award, Andy Allen for the 'Best Soundman' award, and Duke Special for the 'Most Stylish Musician' award. Will there be comic relief from the cast of 'Find Me The Funny' or 'LOL'?
@SHH The event seems to be sponsored by Invest Ni, The Northern Ireland Tourism Board and Belfast City Council which I suppose means that it is government funded. I believe AU Magazine and Oh Yeah also rely on government funding to run.
Actually, a lot of time went into the nominations. We contacted over 70 different people who work in the Northern Ireland Music Industry to contribute to the list. Each person gave five nominations in each category. Each nominee was then entered into a spreadsheet, and the five nominees in each of the categories which had the most votes were then selected for this final list.
In the next stage, each person who nominated will then pick a winner from each category, and those with the most votes will ultimately win each award.
Needless to say, this takes a bit more than ten minutes.
Why do Cashier No.9 have two music videos? Would that give them an advantage? Also, you've mistyped "General Fiasco – The Age That [b:3f5dd887f5]You Start You Start[/b:3f5dd887f5] Losing Friends."
Well, Electronic/Dance music is a much more distinct genre than the lines between rock/indie etc. Totally different scene - clubs, technique etc. I'd say there are very strong arguments for making it a separate category.
I'd say that three times is a serious understatement. More like ten.
[quote:b58c0502b6]Well, Electronic/Dance music is a much more distinct genre than the lines between rock/indie etc. Totally different scene - clubs, technique etc. I'd say there are very strong arguments for making it a separate category.[/quote:b58c0502b6]
I don't want to get into a slagging match about the awards, but I just thought I would ask a question. If electronic/dance music deserves a separate category and these are the "NI Music Awards" how come there are no categories or inclusion of Folk/Trad, Blues, Country, Soul, Pop and other genres. There are several very successful musicians from NI playing these genres of music so how come they aren't included?
For example Simon McBride etc in the Blues Category. Also I'm shocked that people like Joe Echo didn't get a mention in the best solo artist category when they have done allot for the progression NI Music internationally over the past year.
I'm also surprised to see bands like "The Answer" haven't been included especially just after releasing a live DVD/CD. Especially when several artists are listed twice for video nominations, surely it should have been one nomination per artist. You don't see MTV handing out VMA nominations to all an artist's video releases, each artist is listed once.lol
Hi there, I don't see this as a slagging match. It's always good to ask questions and raise points.
Regarding including more categories, we didn't want to go down the road of having too many awards. There are many other categories for various awards that we could have included too, but we felt ten is a good number to be going with this year.
You could also argue that the categories you have listed are still quite niche, with not necessarily that many potential nominations in each category. It doesn't really make sense to create a Blues category simply because Simon McBride deserves to win it. I'm not saying he doesn't, but in my personal opinion there would need to be a big scene in each area to warrant making these separate categories.
Regarding the Answer, this was being chatted about over on the AU website, so I'll just past in what I said there "I think the main reason that The Answer didn't get any nominations this year is that they are between albums, and haven't been as active locally. If the awards were held two or three years ago I'd dare say they'd have definitely picked up a few. They are a phenomenal live band.
With their new album being released soon, things might be different next year.
I'd say this is the main reason that Two Door Cinema Club didn't pick up more nominations too as their album fell just outside of the nominations time frame."
Also, the reason that Cashier No.9 are nominated twice is that two of their videos received the most nominations, simple as that. I've outline above how the nominations were formulated above.
[quote:aa92895a56]It doesn't make sense that there is a separate category for electronic music but none for any other genre.[/quote:aa92895a56]
Exactly. If the line between "indie" and dance is very distinct...then what about the line between indie and metal. For this to be labelled the Northern Irish Music Awards, should it not represent the whole music scene in Northern Ireland- possibly including a category for best metal band, release or video. For example: Dead Til Friday's music video for Water, Gacy's Threads music video for Savour Your Scars or Darkest Era's debut album "The Last Caress of Light" released on the Metal Blade label.
Not trying to put down this event and the lineup looks awesome but it appears to be a very indie orientated music award. Should it not be named "Northern Ireland Indie Music Awards"?
The same point about the level of indie was made on the AU site too. I'll just paste what I said there for speed. "This list is far from indie. LaFaro, ASIWYFA and Mojo Fury are all pretty heavy, Pocket Billiards are pure ska, not to mention the varying types of acts in the Electronic and Solo artist categories."
If you look through the list of nominations closely, you'll notice it's not as indie as you might think.
The awards don't exclude metal bands - they could still be nominated for Best Band, Best Song, Best Live Band and so on. Regarding the videos you mentioned, they would still be eligible for the Best Video category.
Wait...so because The Answer haven't been "that locally active" they aren't for awards, but TDCC are? The Answer headlined a stage at Glasgowbury as well as various smaller gigs in the past few months with support from smaller local bands. What have TDCC done locally recently (excluding Tennants Vital of course)?
No, I'm saying that The Answer are between albums and so they had been quieter of late. Fair enough they are back on the circuit lately, but Two Door have been all over the TV, touring the world, etc constantly for the past year and a half, so they will be in people's minds more.
Hi Iain, we asked people to base their nominations on the past 12 months. The Answer haven't done as much in the past year, whereas bands like ASIWYFA have been really active. Therefore people will think about ASIWYFA more, and hence they will be voted for more frequently. I wouldn't say this is based on memory.
I don't think the question is the quality of the people nominated it is the common demoninator aspect of the selection.....
Indie and dance are probably the most common musical formsaroun NI and as such the focus of the 70 aficionados questioned will favour these styles.....
Unfortunately 70 indie experts will never pick a thrash band on merit as it simply isn't their scene. The only fix therefore is a far wider range of awards, and yes I think 1 entry per award per band is the only fair way to do it, screws up the odds if you hold 40% of the nominations.
That being said it's a great event to even WARRANT having for a pop. of 1.6mil, I just feel a couple of tweaks for the less mainstream styles would please everyone above
I can't see what other way you can do it other than by common denominator. Otherwise it will be bands being picked by on personal preference, or another form of selection. Also, can we move away from this idea of it being 'indie' experts? LaFaro, ASIWYFA, Mojo Fury all have multiple nominations in a range of categories, and are very much NOT indie bands.
[quote:5917b9d4e1]Can't imagine too many people voting for bands they'd forgotten about[/quote:5917b9d4e1]
Well, what I would do, if asked (*snigger*), would be to write out a list of all the bands that had done something and that way I wouldn't just be going by what band's press release I had last read and was therefore foremost in my mind.
The thing is, no matter what way you organise it, awards ceremonies are all a pile of meaningless bollocks.
Best of luck to the nominees, and nominators... but being in my 20's I'm old enough to remember when it was actually cooler not to be lavished with awards by mainstream media... it's about the music, the moment, and the people you share them with... or maybe I'm mistaken.
Anyway, no mention of [url=http://www.decomposinginparis.com/fr_home.cfm]Decomposing In Paris[/url] so I guess we're still cool then :)
[quote:640de99b38]Well, what I would do, if asked (*snigger*), would be to write out a list of all the bands that had done something and that way I wouldn't just be going by what band's press release I had last read and was therefore foremost in my mind.[/quote:640de99b38]
Well what I did was make a longlist of possible options in each category and then whittle them down to my five (completely subjective) choices. Not sure where you are suggesting I would have come across an exhaustive list of every band that had done something noteworthy in the last 12 months but by all means direct me to it.
There seems to be a feeling that judges should be somehow objective in picking their nominations, but that's nonsense. Music is subjective and I picked my choices according to my personal preferences. I imagine the vast majority of voters did the same thing.
By the way, in the interests of clarity and for those that don't know since I haven't been on here in ages, I'n Chris Jones, the editor of AU. My vote was worth exactly the same as any other.
I think I understand what Joel_Man meant by it being an indie award ceremony and it's not necessarily down to the genre of music.
The NI, and in particular Belfast music scene is very small and ultimately in my observation it tends to be very personality driven rather than driven purely by music.
Therefore, despite what Jonny said in the comments section of his website, there IS a certain, 'clique,' of people for lack of a better word who are into bands not because they are loyal to a genre, but rather they are loyal to a social grouping that has emerged around said bands and a general interest in the style of music.
People within these groups who work in online, print or radio media naturally are more inclined to cover bands in their own clique.
This is not an observation labeled purely at AU and the like, it applies to every social circle build around music including Indie, Classic Rock, Punk and Metal.
I'd imagine Joel_Man doesn't actually mean indie bands, he means AU bands. (he can correct me if I'm wrong).
For example, there's a new NI music Magazine called Molten that specializes in Metal. If they had an awards ceremony called THE NORTHERN IRELAND MUSIC AWARDS and only covered music from their own clique (mainly hardcore bands) would that be as deserving of the title of NI Music Awards. Clearly the answer is no. A better title would be the Molten Magazine Awards.
There's no point trying to deny that as a whole the NI music scene is very fragmented, with lots of different cliques all over the place.
NME has the NME awards. Metal Hammer has the Metal Hammer Golden Gods. Kerrang has the Kerrang Awards. Q has the Q awards.
I think a lot of people wouldn't have as much of a problem with this if it was called the AU Awards.
There's my two cents anyway. Good luck with it, I may even go for the craic.
I completely echo the above post. It really should have been titled the '[i:ed1052e329]AU Awards[/i:ed1052e329]'. And irrespective of the 'majority vote' ruling; Cashier having two entries in one category is really stupid.
Alexkazam nailed the point i was trying to make. I say 'indie' because there seems to be a few bands who gig a lot together and do the same sort of things together (festivals, interviews in the same certain magazines, etc.) and a few of them could be classified in the 'indie' category, so I sorta put them all in the same category. Its like the 'rugby guys' at a school even though some of them are the hockey ones- they still hang around with the rugby guys and go to the same events.
I was also wondering who these 70 experts are?
I think for this to be accepted as a Northern Irish music awards ceremony, there would have to be some inclusion and representation of the bands on the heavier side to show the diversity of the scene in Northern Ireland- especially if there's a category for electronic/dance (surely there's a larger metal scene than an electronic scene in Northern Ireland?)
[quote:e406651526]Surely there's a larger metal scene than an electronic scene in Northern Ireland?[/quote:e406651526]
In fairness dude that point is debatable but I'd say the metal scene is fairly substantial. However I never would have expected a metal band to be nominated in this awards show despite some of the great international achievements of some local metal/hard rock acts; achievements that I'd imagine are largely unknown to many of the 70 judges (I could be completely wrong on this, but as the judges are being kept secret to prevent soliciting by bands I guess it'll be hard to estimate).
AU and the NI metal clique pretty much run in parallel these days so if it was called the AU Awards I'd never expect the inclusion of metal, blues or any of the other mentioned genres.
There'll always be different opinions of who deserves nominated etc but all the nominations are deserving. It is the first year- hopefully they'll continue and things'll probably evolve like anything else does. Changes and suggestions will probably be taken on board. Like, one nomination per category for a band, a call for submissions for certain categories, different categories, maybe a public vote stuff and whatever else will make it through.
Looking forward seeing how they go this year, looks like a strong start. Mostly, I hope they've got the wrap it up music, and wonder what it might be!
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I haven't read all of this yet... but I get the general gist that people are saying "Its all indie" and AU saying actually no it isn't...
If you are complaining that your band / or your favourite band arent getting nominated then this is one of three things - either your band / your favourite band haven't been picked up on the radar OR you have and you are just shite / they are shite OR the loyal fans aren't attending the gigs...
Promoters want to get the bands in that will bring the crowds... that how they make a couple of quid - therefore if you are a metal band with a huge fanbase - then get that word out... you will play the bigger gigs... you will get on the radar... you will get nominated...
I think Johnny is right... The Answer haven't been as vocal on the scene this year - but they are certainly not indie... and had to fight to get where they are above all the "indie" stuff... So simply - stop complaining about the awards... it is good that NI has these... and good for the bands who get them... and you should striving towards winning one...
I dont care how cool you think you are - winning recognition for your work will always make you smile... even if you are all Emo about it!
I for one would be proud to win one of these awards!
[quote:8f3d816062]You could also argue that the categories you have listed are still quite niche, with not necessarily that many potential nominations in each category. It doesn't really make sense to create a Blues category simply because Simon McBride deserves to win it.[/quote:8f3d816062]
The blues has always been one of Irelands biggest music exports i.e. Rory Gallagher, Gary Moore etc. There are many 'local' artists out there playing internationally, Simon was only the first name I thought of. But I still cant believe Joe Echo/Ciaran Gribbin didnt get nominated after all he has done over the last 12 months.
[quote:8f3d816062]Regarding the Answer, this was being chatted about over on the AU website, so I'll just past in what I said there "I think the main reason that The Answer didn't get any nominations this year is that they are between albums, and haven't been as active locally.[/quote:8f3d816062]
The Answer just released their DVD/CD "412 days Of Rock n Roll" in june 2011 so they have released an album this year. They have also toured non-stop from April - October this year and are due to start their current tour in the coming weeks. So if anything they have probably being one of the busiest bands this year. Lets face it, if a band were only to be active "locally" they wouldn't be very successful.
Also regarding the same artist getting two nominations in the same category... Surely their biggest vote should have been their entry in that category then drop their 2nd nomination and move onto the next biggest vote.
I do agree with every thing 'alexkazam' and 'Daveitferris' said.
If this: "I dont care how cool you think you are - winning recognition for your work will always make you smile... even if you are all Emo about it! I for one would be proud to win one of these awards!" was aimed at my comment you took what I was saying way too seriously! I'm in support of the awards, I would love it if my band had more attention, and recognition... A listing in AU Magazine is fantastic, because it may help get our music to more people, and quickly. I actually think it's a great magazine & read it often. However, getting in magazines etc is not the end goal, and that was my point. People need to chill out.
[quote:7fdcb04369]Also, the reason that Cashier No.9 are nominated twice is that two of their videos received the most nominations, simple as that. I've outline above how the nominations were formulated above.[/quote:7fdcb04369]
"If you are complaining that your band / or your favourite band arent getting nominated then this is one of three things - either your band / your favourite band haven't been picked up on the radar OR you have and you are just shite / they are shite OR the loyal fans aren't attending the gigs"
You forgot the fourth one - the "radar" is shite
[quote:48e14d99d1]I haven't read all of this yet...[/quote:48e14d99d1]
It kind of shows because...
[quote:48e14d99d1]but I get the general gist that people are saying "Its all indie" and AU saying actually no it isn't...[/quote:48e14d99d1]
...is not the general gist.
[quote:48e14d99d1]if you are a metal band with a huge fanbase - then get that word out... you will play the bigger gigs... you will get on the radar... you will get nominated...[/quote:48e14d99d1]
This is a pretty naive view and it kind of sounds like you aren't actually involved in the metal scene and are just assuming that there are no metal bands, 'on the radar,' because you aren't aware of them.
Take Gama Bomb from Newry for example.
- Signed to Earache records
- Released two acclaimed albums through them so far
- Toured all over the UK, Europe, USA and Mexico several times over
- Dozens of festival dates
- High profile support slots for bands such as Trivium, Sepultura and more
Or what about Darkest Era from Fermanagh?
- Signed to American label Metal Blade - the record company that launched Slayer and Metallica.
- Their debut album which was released this year has received incredible reviews from metal magazines all over the world.
- They play outside NI more than inside it with gigs around Europe and the UK.
- High profile support slots for Primordial, Slough Feg, Sahg and Diamond Head.
I don't listen to folk or traditional music and have no involvement in that scene at all, however I'm not going to assume that because I'm not aware of too many globally successful bands from that genre that they don't exist (the only one I'm aware of is Beoga although I'd imagine there are more).
In fact, you'd think since the Tourist Board is partially funding this that they'd want to push folk music which is about as Northern Irish as you can get, yet Beoga, who tour like crazy are not featured at all.
Hence why I raised the point earlier that a title like, 'The AU Awards,' would be more apt and would raise fewer cynical eyebrows.
Hi all, just to clear up the idea of it being the 'AU Awards'. These awards are a collaborative effort between AU and Oh Yeah. Both organisations had been planning separate awards ceremonies as part of Belfast Music Week, independently of each other. It made much more sense to combine both energies to present a show together. This is how it evolved into the Northern Ireland Music Awards.
It's not a negative suggestion on the people [i:92253d4c04](including me)[/i:92253d4c04] who suggested 'AU Awards', imo it's moreso saying '[i:92253d4c04]why is [b:92253d4c04]AU[/b:92253d4c04] the voice of reason for the entire northern ireland music scene?[/i:92253d4c04]'. Jonny, how would you have felt if Fate Magazine had organised '[i:92253d4c04]Northern Ireland Music Awards[/i:92253d4c04]' before you had the chance? I think what's ticking off a few of the folks here, is that you're representing the entire local music scene via these awards, whilst leaving out notable bands & genres, you know? But then again, ye can never make everybody happy!
Well it's just first come catchee the monkey really, isn't it.
If you had wanted to set up the NI Music awards, went and organised it, got all the bands and all the PR for it, nobody would have stopped you like. I'm sure Fate magazine could easily go and do it, and nobody would stop them. We'd probably all complain about how shite it was, but I don't think many people would be going "how dare they try to represent us!"
So they can call it the Northern Ireland Music Awards all they want. If it really bothers you you could set up the Real Northern Ireland Music Awards.
No genres are being excluded. Every single band/album/song/video in Northern Ireland was eligible for nomination in the relevant categories, from whatever genre. As Jude said, it's the first year and there is plenty of scope for tweaking things next time.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh BUT by having a "Dance/electronic" award you are inadvertently excluding everyone who isnt Dance and or electronic from being nominated in this category. Although a metal band could HAVE won it in theory, its actively geared towards promoting an act from a specific genre to win it. Just as a "Solo act" award doesnt get awarded to a band. You devious bastards.
Why must you programme us like lizard overlords of music? Why does AU hate metal?
Im the best footballer in the county for my height.
I had just thought of the AU Yeah thing too, then read someone mention it before me. proper gutted.... so i'll just do a rant now instead..
fair play to guys at AU and Oh Yeah for putting this together and hope people give it a chance to get off the ground.
when your dealing with a small place full of unsigned / underground artists, there's always gonna be people forgotten about. im kinda unsure those 70 odd people are gonna be experts in all the categories, for example someone who's into rock bands isn't necessarily gonna know who's actually the best in electronic music.. (my itunes library is probably gonna sound alot different than someone like stuart bailie's etc).. so im guessing voters will be more likely to pick bands they've heard of more hence some of the names being predictable. I'd rather have that 70 odd people being split up into groups who specialise in that particular category, then you're more likely to get it right and keep most people happy. and from that point i dont know why people are talking about AU not liking metal either, surely 70 odd music pro's wont have the same musical taste as the au lads at the mag.
overall there's alot more positives than negatives, it just took me alot longer to write that last point ha. i think its a nice reward for some of the lads who've put the work in that year and it will definitely also help motivate others to work harder.
ps hopefully rory mcconnell gets some sort of mention or award at this ceremony... he and his team has helped out alot of those bands on the nominations list. was kinda shit the event got announced the same day as the cuts.
heh, this thread is still going, eh? I'd rather go to the MTV Europe Music Awards to be honest, although no mention of Nicki Minaj but Beyonce, Adele and Katy Perry get a look in?!?!?! WTF?!??!?!?! I'm so angry right now.
I'm well aware of that. My reading comprehension skills are good enough to know that daveit ferris and chris somebody are not the same.
It's poorly written, makes no real point. Just stringing together "this happened, then this happened, then he said that, and she said this" style gossip that you'd hear from old ladies down the bingo, throws baseless irrelevant accusations around the place and then cherrypicks some unattributed inflamatory statements.
It strikes me as a very poor article for a number of reasons.
Firstly, there is an obvious declaration of impartiality being represented as quite the opposite. How anybody could infer that particular meaning from that particular statement is beyond me, but to publish it in an article such as this is (at best) laughable.
Secondly, any salient points (which do exist somewhere) are buried underneath piles of deliberately provocative namecalling, personal attacks and spurious 'facts'.
What could have been an interesting article, sparking off sensible discussion, was turned into an intentionally controversial attack with a childish 'us vs. them' mentality.
Again, while I don't agree with the article, I believe that there are interesting issues deep down in there somewhere which could have been worth discussing. Opinion is great - pushing peoples' buttons for the sake of it isn't.
The writer has every right to voice their opinions and I dont think PD ever claim to be operating under strict codes of journalism, but I would have to say that as regards ATL's Rigsy, they guy has missed the point entirely. What he says about bands being reviewed because they are friends is in fact the EXACT opposite. Rigs was saying that if a reviewer has any association with a band they should NOT be reviewed. Very, very big difference.
In the interests of clarity - I was quoted in this article. I was expecting to be named in the quote however due to the incendiary nature of the article the writer probably chose to leave my name out of it.
If you're read my contributions to this thread you will know that the PD article definitely does not reflect my opinion and the tone certainly is not in my original quote.
We just removed the post. We are not about breeding hate and that's what has happened. Since the post people have quietly supported it, but upsettingly the people that didn't support it were much more vocal. They have made many personal attacks on different staff of Panic Dots. We are a fun loving site. We have never claimed to be anything other than a wee fun blog. We just happened to agree that the awards are were poorly named, so we posted it. The post made ref's to ATL, which prob shouldn't have been there and also AU and Oh Yeah should have had their say. We are huge fans of AU and i personally owe a lot to Jonny and i consider him a good friend. I'm pretty sure we won't be posting anything like this in the future. We'll stick to our trashy blog ways. Sozzel pops.
Rich, there is no issue with the article saying things negative about ATL, thats fine - we're big boys and girls - but as above, there were factual errors that need to be corrected and personal attacks aplenty within it (it does seem odd that you take it down for those very same reasons though Richard!). NB Its still online at this time, but direct link gone.
Again, I dont think anyone has a right to criticise the guy for having a perfectly valid and challenging opinion on NI music and the media that operates within it, but facts being wrong is not on. I can only speak regarding the incorrect references to Across the Line. Rigsy has never written a review he hasnt been at, nor do we review friends bands. Its the opposite. I think taking it down smacks of censorship, which runs at odds with the piece.
Publish and be damned Richard and Chris, but be accurate is my two cents.
I AM ABSOLUTELY WITH ALEX KAZAAM! I couldn't have said it better myself dude!
I am absolutely stoked that this has become sucha hot topic of conversation and debate!
It's about time NI spoke out! When I reference NI I do mean as a whole and not just Belfast.
My experience has been similar and I have blogged about this a week or so ago and was accused of being mad, bitter and all other sorts. Lol Although the only people who debated or spoke up were those who assumed it was directed personally towards them... Guilty conscience maybe? I joke btw... Although sometimes one can protest too much.
Keep talking and let's break down these barriers. As fantastic as they are, there is way more on this wee island of ours than 'La Faro'... (as an example only) ;) Peace
All messing aside I expect to see some inappropriate public drunkenness, some heckling and a few cerfuffles at this. It's building up to be a corker of a night! Can we please have papparazi style shots of some local celebrities getting out of taxis and drunkenly punching local photographers and such?
For the record, facts were not wrong as panic dots stated. I had an interpretation issue with ATL back in may on Facebook and twitter and this is what the author was referencing. If anyone was following atl's pigstock blogs you can read it for yourself. Alexkazam was not exactly mis quoted but he was happy to have an opinion on the topic and as his band manager I Sent that part of his quote to the author. Sue me... I enjoyed the article and if anyone missed it check it out on www.Chriswrites.net
I am sure rigsy and johnny t are hardly crying their lamps out.
The issue that I take with much of this is the fact that public money is involved to "support" music in NI.
Its pretty bleedin obvious that the only music that gets any support is the narrow brand supported by the social scene referred to in a previous poster`s comment.
I couldnt give a monkeys what music is played or bands supported, but I do think stating something is NI wide when its pretty obvious many types of music are excluded , and taxpayers money is involved is disingenuous.
Rich, I really wasnt asking for validation on what ATL does, and I think you know that tbh. I was just asking that the facts presented in any criticism (and genuine criticism is ALWAYS fine) are correct, its really nothing more, and the rest of article is to my mind completely valid. Im not saying I agree with it, but its a point that someone is obviously very entitled to make. I cant keep making the same point though.
SFManagemnt, facts were actually wrong though as I simply must repeat. In fact as regards the ATL stuff, the quote re band reviews was the exact polar opposite to what had been stated.
It (the one about festivals/friend - see below) was a quote directly from me, so I know exactly what I said and exactly what our stance is on reviews and the many ATL reviewers can attest that we always ask if they have any connection to a band and if they have, they must ignore that band on a bill or at a festival. We try as much as possible to maintain integrity. The BBC has incredibly tight rules on nepotism and we all sign declarations of interest (such as DJing or bands we may be in or have personal connections with). Now more than ever we are under scrutiny and rightly so. Audiences need to trust us or we will not last, especially given the brutal cuts to the other Introducing brand in NI (keep signing that petition).
There have been occasions in the past 10 years or so of hosting online reviews when we've been let down or havent explained our house rules properly and have absolutely held our hands up. Its damaging to ATL and also the bands (not to mention the reviewers) when that happens so we take a lot of care to try to make sure it doesnt happen. We also would NEVER allow our presenter, and the most public figure on the show to fabricate a review. That accusation simply bonkers and is potentially damaging if it becomes accepted wisdom which I why I probably seem to be labouring this point.
For the record, at Pigstock 2011, for this seems to be the jumping off point for this, partially, I was trying to explain the reasoning behind us not being physically able to review all of the bands we'd like to. I replied to you (and this is as you say a matter of public record on facebook) "take your point Jo but its def not a case of usual suspects. we tried to cover main stage as much as poss, and sometimes had to make choices depending on who was covering as they may have know members of bands etc or just a case of time contstraints. we also got reviews of loads of bands never ever covered by us before, so we're not just picking bands that always get the plaudits. Red Enemy, Magwere have never been featured or played for instance. We def weren't willfully ignoring the lads from Mental Deficiency, in fact they could yet be among a group of reviews to go up!"
Now excuse the spelling, but what I was trying to point out with "had to make choices depending on who was covering as they may have know members of bands etc " that if a reviewer knows the band they were FORBIDDEN (big booming voice there) not that we allowed them to do it or encouraged it. The stuff about Rigs in the article needed correcting was my one and only point in all of this.
As I said to you several times Richard publish and be damned, but be correct. Sorry for the lengthy post, but I seem to have spent a fair chunk of the day saying the same thing to a lot of folks, which is fine, but a little tiring and I am old.
Just read this thread and the article linked above. I can't stress how wrong he is about the integrity of the ATL guys. Paul, Amy, Rigsy and now Philly do a great job getting as many gigs covered as possible. But it's an impossible task to control who knows who in such a small musical community. There are only so many bands and so many venues and unless a reviewer is an absolute hermit, its inevitable that sometimes they will come into contact with bands. What the ATL guys do alot is ensure that the links are not too close...for example, there's no way in hell I'd be allowed to review Parachutes Over Paris, and rightly so given that I was in a band with one of them, or indeed the Electric Moccassins who I played with as Circadian. I wouldn't ask to. But it's difficult to ensure that a reviwer has absolutely no affiliation with the bands on a given bill, and to an extent it's left to the integrity of the reviewer to be honest and ATL put their trust in reviewers to act accordingly. To suggest that Rigsy put his name to a review of a gig he didn't attend is just bullshit. Do you think somebody in his position would really be so stupid?
As for the awards ceremony, they're a great idea. It's the first year so give it a chance and I'm sure Johnny et al will take on board these suggestions and hopfully adapt for the future and create a more inclusive bill next year. Yes the performances are varied from rock to indie pop dance...but the awards themselves are quite imbalanced given the amount of other types of music there are available. I don't think AU pretend to be authorities on the local rock scene but as Sadoldgit pointed out, the Answer have been extremely active over the past year, I can only assume that one's jeans were too tight for one to notice. And I would add that Dead Presidents are one of the best live bands locally and I'd be interested to hear if any of the 70 had ever seen them play live? I'm also well aware that Microlip aren't everybodys cup of tea but they can't be ignored simply due to the extent of airplay on Citybeat and Cool FM alone. Afaik they've been signed to release an album (if it's not already released) and have been gigging all over the place. Just a few glaring misses on the part of the organisers. Then again, if these bands were mentioned in the 70 but didn't gather enough votes, I stand corrected and that's fair enough.
The clique thing is spot on, but it's something that we just have to live with. It could just as easily be a metal/rock/blues driven clique and the indie/electronic bands could be feeling left out, its an inevitable part of any society.
Bile is a wonderfully provocative and occasionally regenerative substance, though I think that in this case, the relatively lazy approach to it's iteration has been counterproductive to making any forward progress (if there was even a fractal chance of that being a reasonable ideal in the first place)
On a lighter note; I have taken two primary points away from this discussion. <br />
1. PaulATL seems an incredibly objective and empathetic guy. Good show indeed sir. <br />
and <br />
2. It seems that some people might need to remind themselves that "Indie" is not a genre. <br />
Hey Danny, just a quick point on the nominations- no-one that was asked to vote was given any direction on what bands and performers to vote for, simply that for the likes of best album/song/video, it was best to include releases from the last 12 months only. There were probably a few hundred acts voted for from all genres and backgrounds across all of the category's, and the final 5 were just those that had the most votes.
Mind you, there is certainly some valid points that have been raised about who was asked and how representative it is of NI as a whole. We did try and be as inclusive as possible, and we feel we did a pretty good job of it, but it's definitely something we'd be looking to improve on for future years.
Anyway, if nothing else, there's some great bands playing on the night and it should be good fun!
Hi Andrew, Yes I do understand the voting system, and I think that it's a very fair way to allocate nominations, I can't think how it could have been done better. Where it fails however evidently is that a band who have been very active, such as the Answer have been completely overlooked. Johnny's earlier comments that they're between albums simply don't stand up, but like I said, I wouldn't expect him to be an authority on classic rock bands, so he's not at fault. Maybe who was asked is where the problems arise. Local magazines/radio etc are going to be exposed predominantly to the more popular bands TDCC, ASIWYFA etc, so its expected that they are the ones that receive most votes, there's no problem with that. I think the imbalance was inevitable given that certain types of music are simply more popular than others, receive most exposure and therefore are to the forefront of the mind of any voter. In that case, who do you ask? Where does it stop.
So yeah, overall I think it's a great start to what could grow to be an excellent award ceremony, which, in the future could look to expanding to include folk/trad artists.
daveit - i think it makes more sense to be called the NIMA - the reason being that it is entirely funded by NI organisations. Calling it the AU awards would mean that it would need to be including all of Ulster instead of Northern Ireland.
2nd post in almost 3 and a half years.
Already I'm starting to think it's too many.
Anyway, I'm staying out of this one and might just go to see some of the bands.
See you around.
"IAIN" dammit, 15 years around music blah, blah etc....
Genre is a horribly stagnant way to talk about music, but my point was; Obviously the term has been reapplied by trend-fearing people nearly 2 decades ago, but to mean what exactly? What defines an "indie" band [i:554ba724d8]musically[/i:554ba724d8]? A dance beat? Nah, the 90's bands popularly defined as indie didn't use that to the same extent. If I were to use it, which I always try to avoid, it would be to describe something created on an independent label or by an independent filmhouse which certainly doesn't facilitate a genre. To my understanding, the popular reapplication happened in the 90's to what I can only hope disgusts real musicians, mean an act who have more style than substance. I mean consider the bands people would refer to as Indie and then consider what they actually have in common, other than haircuts and commercial viability.
If it is legit, however, to say "extended by 1984 to a type of pop music by such (independent) labels." then nearly every "indie" band in modern memory are not Indie because they're signed to majors or vanity labels of the majors like Domino etc. I just feel it's a word that is used incorrectly 90% of the time and think that intelligent people and musicians in particular should be more aware of it.
2. I nominated 3 acts for The Oh Yeah Contenders Award.
3. I wouldn't consider any of them 'indie'.
4. PaulATL speaks the truth about Pigstock '11. I was one of the writers not allowed to review certain bands. In the interests of specifics, I didn't review The 1930s as I was their manager at the time but I was also asked not to review Emerald Armada or Farriers because they moved in the same sort of circles even though I had no direct involvement with either band.
5. Lafaro and FWW are mouthy bands with attitude and they always will be. Everyone can have an opinion. Remember when music used to be controversial, aye?
6. I'm certain Terri Hooley was putting on Jazz gigs in 1911.
7. BBC and BCC are not the same thing. Budget cuts for one have fuck all to do with money being used by the other.
8. Northern Ireland generally shies away from it's successes. They either go ignored or are slated by a few who deem themselves to know better.
9. Why no metal is an argument that happens on here every five minutes... Why no punk? Why no country? Why no reggae? Simple because indie music and pop music is err... more popular. Ask your average punter on the street to name a Northern Irish band and they'll stuggle to even think of ASIWYFA or Cashier No.9.
How about a another called "miserablebastardmusic" for those who complain constantly?
What about changing Metal to "MOAR METAL" as that also seems to be an issue?
I think "Folktradcountryfiddledeedee" would work too, covers all the mandolin players.
How about "Punkkrautrockthrash" there's bound to be a call for that?
"Prerecordedblippophiphoponyourmp3" also sounds like a winner.
Where does it stop?
What about we all just do what we do as best we can without throwing insults every single time either AU, ATL or Ohyeah is mentioned on this forum?
I've been a volunteer at Ohyeah from before its opened its doors, I take pictures for AU on occasion (as a volunteer, although I'd much rather be paid [Cough] ) and I can say without question that the bile that has been spewed toward those two organisations, as well as the good people at ATL, over the past week has been so shockingly childish that it actually depresses me, what the actual fuck? What gives? Honestly?
Is it the same old 'funding' spiel again?
Is it that they have had a lot of success?
Is it sheer jealousy?
What is it?
This nonsense started before Ohyeah opened its doors, for the most part it has died down because the vast majority of those who complained have in some way or other been involved with the centre and had a positive experience from it, many continue to do just that. If the those on the "scene" who relentlessly complain worked as hard as the volunteers and staff at AU, ATL or Ohyeah there wouldn't be time for this level of crap.
I've never met a group of people so committed to what they do, who work ridiculous hours for next to nothing for the betterment of anyone that crosses their doors, and yet they still take a phenomenal amount of abuse for it. I truly hoped we were past this nonsense, its a sad day seeing this when after the pressure of the last week MOST people have been big enough to bury the hatchet, engage in adult conversation and explore what needs changed where and how it can be done.
Its shame that bits of Fastfude are lagging behind so much.
Hell, even Cahir and Rigsy have decided how best to move on, maybe not to my taste but there ya go.
(see Lafaro bakebook for more joy on that front!! BABY OIL!!!)
(Note: I'm amazed that I got this typed up with only one proper swear word)
(EDIT: to add additional swear word and correct Grammar for fear of offending Marty)
I heard that when ASIWYFA are being presented with an award they are going to come onstage, with partial ownership of a Turkish Barbershop, and Rigsy is going to push them into a hole at the side of the stage.
For all the reasons to dislike this, the nominations really are a very minor part. While I don't particularly like most of the bands on this list, with the exception of the answer (whom I also don't enjoy), I can't really think of any band that is missing from the list.
It seems people are thinking this is about local music, but it's not. It's about bands that happen to be from here, but are now much bigger than just "a local band" so of course my mates band who played a blinder set to 40 people in auntie annies last week, and next month they're playing a battle of the bands in auchnacloy aren't going to feature.
It's probably best if we just ignore dr. sadoldgit and his yousunsareallindiewankboys routine, he really has no clue what he's on about.
Here you are now.
Best Band: Two Door Cinema Club
Best Live Act: ASIWYFA
Best Song: General Fiasco 'The Age You Start Losing Friends'
Best Solo Artist: Robyn G Shiels
Best Electronic Artist: Space Dimension Controller
Best Album: Cashier No.9 'To The Death Of Fun'
Best Video: Cashier No.9 'Lost At Sea'
Best Festival: Glasgowbury
Oh Yeah Contenders: Wonder Villains
Oh Yeah Legends: Stiff Little Fingers