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Fellow muscians, let's start a debate...
  1. avatar hazerockon
  2. avatar tinpot anto
    It's easy enough. Work with the venues/people who do a good job for decent money, don't work with the knobs and you'll be sweet. You aren't missing out on anything paying over the odds for shoddy service.

    As for the media, you have a simple choice if you play music that's commercial or chase a current trend, you are likely to get more attention but of course you will be changing your music to suit, and that's your choice. If you want to do something you believe in then it's just pure chance if the currents of public interest waft your way, or if you genuinely catch the interest of a few people with influence, more power to you.

    I advocate the latter strategy.

    there's no mystery.
  3. avatar Chi-Lite
    Aye, why not.

    [b:86054f3e2c]Promoters[/b:86054f3e2c]

    I think the problem here is simply that there are too many people about who don't know what promoting is, or even whether they're a promoter or not. There are lots and lots and lots of promoters here who think promoting a gig amounts to getting a venue and phoning a band up to play it. They then expect it to be up to the band to make sure that people turn up. If you ask those people what they do they will probably say that they "put on gigs". In some ways that's fair enough - whether anybody turns up to a gig or not is to a large extent up to the band playing. But you wonder what the point of these people is. often their only role is that they know the manager of the bar. Some of these people don't even take any money for themselves, which is fair enough. but others do. for fuck all. In short, if you're calling yourself a promoter, you should promote, not just arrange a venue and a band to play in it. If you're just doing this, make sure that you tell the band that they will have to do all their promotion. Perhaps take a small amount of money for doing the door, if you're doing that (many times the bands and their friends have to do the door). Just don't say you're a promoter.

    Sound Engineers

    Personally, i think we're well set up for sound guys here. Almost all professional sound engineers that I've worked with in Belfast have been spot on. On occassions, if playing a small, informal gig, you may end up working with some amateur who knows a wee bit about sound, probably because he plays in another band, and is doing it as a favour. That's fair enough, generally they're not bad either, and if its a favour or for a minimal charge, you can't really complain.

    Venues

    Unfortunately, that's just commerce. Greg is pretty much the only person in Belfast who will allow free use of his venues, even though he could quite easily charge money for them, and people would pay it, because they're such well-established venues. Other places, like Auntie annies (although they sometimes give free room hire) will charge money because its a good venue, people will pay it, and, ultimately, they don't want to take a risk of paying staff with hardly anybody there. Greg takes this risk all the time, and fair play to him, but many others wouldn't.

    Other Bands

    I don't know, maybe they just don't want to talk to you. It is nice to be nice and pleasant, obviously, but maybe bands don't reply because they're just not interested in what yiu're offering or suggesting, and don't get round to replying. Many bands, who are busy people after all, get lots of emails asking if they're interested in one thing or another. I think it's safe to assume that if they don't reply, they're not interested. i wouldn't take it personally.

    Media

    People involved in the media like certain bands. They are human, and have their own taste. Get involved in the media yourself, offer to write reviews for some of the many zines, blogs and websites there are knocking about, and then you can cater for your own taste. It's not that I disagree with you - frankly I think the music taste of most people involved in the music media in Belfast is right up their hole, either full of skinny-jeaned indie twee or post rawk fucking drudge. But sure they'd probavbly say I like a lot of oul shite too. Go and start your own website. I would, but I just couldn't be fucked, so if I disagree with those people who can be fucked, I can't really complain.

    At the end of the day you just do what you do like, innit.
  4. avatar feline1
    A lot of this noncesense vis-a-vis promoters and venues could be readily solved with some simple transparency of accounting.

    A simple sheet showing, for example, door takings versus other outgoings incurred, makes it plan whether or not the fee paid to the band is reasonable or not.
    However all too often all you get is handwaving blether.
  5. avatar darkprince07
    I'm quite sure many people have shared the distastes you have for different matters in Northern Irelands music scene. I've only been in the scene a year now and I can make examples of everything you have mentioned. In the end of the day no matter what your profession or job you do you will always have the "Cowboys" somewhere. You live and learn who is best and where is best over time and it all leads to more and better experience in the field.
  6. avatar DuncanDisorderly
    On the flip side (the promoters perspective) bands can be a nightmare to get in contact with - not answering calls and emails / providing press kits and so forth. This leads to disorganisation and confusion regarding backline etc.

    Also, you should agree with the promoter BEFORE the gig itself in regards to payment. Normally a gig costs the promoter money. If a gig is not a success they should cover band travel expenses as they will have other things to pay for (posters / soundman etc) - sometimes a gig will be empty even if you poster the whole town. If it is successful then everyone should benefit - some bands are cheeky enough to ask for a large amount when no-one is at the gig.

    Essentially you have to assess every situation on its own merits and from both sides of the fence.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  7. avatar Mickeycolensoparade
    Work harder, reap the rewards. It's a hard enough vocation to survive in, but not as hard as GCSE maths. I failed it twice, or three times - I can't remember I'm not good with numbers.
  8. avatar darkprince07
    I got an A first time in GCSE maths, willing to purchase tutoring? :P
  9. avatar Nocarsgo
    [quote:a9dae5b1e4]Media

    This is another sore point of mine. It kind of relates to the above. You could say that in my view, there are a circle of bands/media comps that seem to be constantly in motion. They are constantly reviewing the same bands and interviewing the same bands, [b:a9dae5b1e4]who we've all kinda heard of, and know that they're not really going to go anywhere, yet the companies continue to do the same motions with the same bands, over and over again.[/b:a9dae5b1e4] Where is the search for new talent? Where is the help for bands that don't have money?[/quote:a9dae5b1e4]

    I guess it's up to the mainstream media to choose who they want to cover. Your statement about knowing bands "are not really going to go anywhere" strikes me as a little odd, though. That's such a vague idea. Bands are covered in the media because they're thought to be talented, not because they're necessarily thought to be able to "make it". Case in point, ASIWYFA.

    I can't really talk because I'm a microscopic dot in terms of most blogs/magazines covering local music, but if a band do some simple promotion work online or, heaven forbid, actually send me a damn email asking me to check them out I generally will try them out. You need to be hardworking AND talented to get ahead these days. It's not like shooting fish in a barrel.

    By the way, if any bands are reading this: please, please, PLEASE provide some real contact details on your main site. An regularly maintained email address and a phone number (with a name for reference sake) is essential. I don't want to have to add you on Facebook in order to get in touch with you. A good EPK is the icing on the cake, as well.
  10. avatar PaulATL
    EPK hasn't posted on here in ages ;) he has moved on.

    sorry I'll go back to m y ivory encrusted tor until the Xmas ATL band list backlash thingy.
  11. avatar 10rapid
    You mean the atl 'skinny jeaned indie twee/post rock sludge list?
  12. avatar hazerockon
    I don't know if I agree with you on that one Nocarsgo.

    And btw, our band is doing fine, I'm speaking more about younger people starting out on the scene, with little money. There is very little support there for them, and I've seen some really talented people over the last while, who given the right treatment, would shine a lot better than some of the "big" bands. Instead they're stuck in crap gigs that no-one goes to, and so sadly, they're not spoted. They can't afford to record a decent cd, and for the above reasons, I feel for them.

    In terms of contacts, it's also very hard for a young musician to even know where to begin. Am I the only one that has noticed the bad blood running around Belfast between sound engineers etc? I hear it all the time about he/she's crap, they're d*cks. For a newbie, it must be confusing as hell, especially since you don't know who is talking jive and who is actually good.

    Basically, NI could do with some scouts..
  13. avatar The_Martyr
    Is an EPK an Electronic Press Kit? Or have I just created a fine acronym?

    RE: Sound Engineers, I would consider myself lucky to have had very few bad encounters with [i:52bbf14bde]Sound Men[/i:52bbf14bde](cos they usually are sound). What I would recommend is seeking out people doing the sound who maybe aren't doing it regularly and, if they're interested, asking them if they would like to personally do your sound at gigs. Obviously this is not always viable, but I had the offer once, and it had never occurred to me before, but seemed like a great idea. I mean, if you know how you want to sound, and someone wants a bit of practice working consistently with a band, then it's a win-win situation. The only difficult bit, I suppose, is settling on how you can reimburse them, although I think the majority would be happy with gratitude and travel expenses. Basically nothing more than the bands themselves usually come home with. At the end of the day, they basically become a 'secret Nth member', and mystery is great for publicity, haha.
  14. avatar JTM
    [quote:48f3f4a285]"Basically, NI could do with some scouts.."[/quote:48f3f4a285]



    Scouting is like panning for gold, you have to wade through a lot of mud to find a nugget. And when you shout "Look at this! Gold!" the response can be "Aye, well done mate. Now wind yer neck in." or more often, nothing. That said, it's fun and can be rewarding. I'm out of the gig business. Anyone who cares to listen to me when I find a decent brand new band, grand. I'll pass them onto Best Served Local and all the other good folks online; you can make your own minds up.
  15. avatar boarsheadtaverncheapside
    The biggest problem I observed is that no one is making any money. Revenue. Endurance is one thing, but with no incentive it seems pointless. Also if we're going to be honest there are only 10 or 20 individuals who are any cop, like, genuinely creative people who are prepared to go through the hoops, and as JTM says we've all had to sit through tons of sh*te, and the place is riddled with nepotism which doesn't help.
  16. avatar JTM
    Agreed, I don't know about nepotism, but certainly it can be easy to find the half-decent bands, then just give them all the gigs.

    One reason may well be the money. I know I've paid bands out of my own pocket when not enough punters turned up to cover costs, let alone allow me to pay an appearance fee, and while that was fine for a while, I literally cannot afford to do that anymore. Therefore, putting a gig on with unknown or new bands is a big risk.
  17. avatar hazerockon
    Yeah, well, I think it's f*#ked up that bands feel they have to suck up and "go through the hoops" to get attention. Balls to that. I'm sick of that kind of mentality, that for some reason has become taken as granted these days. It's complete rubbish. If all the media want is trendy friendly stuff, f*#k 'em.

    If you're good, you're good. The media etc can't change that. If people listen, they listen. We for one are not prepared to go through the hoops. We set up our own gigs, promote our own stuff, and f*#k whatever anybody says about us. We held a gig in the Black Box in late June, we're headlining the Ulster Grand Prix in August, and we're holding another night in the Limelight in October. We only hit the scheme at Christmas, and to put it bluntly, we'll kiss no-ones ass.

    I hate the BS

    And I would also like to add, for any new bands out there, take my advice. If you believe it, make it happen yourself.

    PS: darkprince07 - I see your GCSE Maths, and raise you a BSc Hons Maths ;)
  18. avatar Deestroyer
    Cecil salutes 'do it yourself'.

    [img:31eac8d195]http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20080406_03.jpg[/img:31eac8d195]

    At the end of the day, everyone's had to do it by themselves and jump through hoops. In fact, jumping through hoops is a band's primary function. No one band that I've ever spoken to has achieved anything with any relative level of ease. You have to work hard, you have to be smart, you have to be talented and you have to be tolerant and put up with shit - everyone else has. That's why anyone complaining about poor venues, poor gigs etc get laughed off this site. Everyone else has been through it, and probably been through worse.
    I also sometimes get the impression (this isn't directed at the comments above) that some bands feel that simply by virtue of being in a band is enough to expect packed gigs, fanbases and record deals. It'll always be frustrating and difficult and full of setbacks, but that's just tough. If anything, the process weeds out the casual bands, makes it too difficult for shit bands and promotes innovation and professionalism.

    Don't get me wrong, the system ain't perfect, but good bands [i:31eac8d195]tend[/i:31eac8d195] to do fairly well and bad bands [i:31eac8d195]tend[/i:31eac8d195] to struggle, so something's working.
  19. avatar hazerockon
    Deestroyer, I don't disagree with your above comment; it's kinda echoing my "If you're good, you're good. The media etc can't change that. If people listen, they listen.".

    But if good bands weren't doing fairly well, then there would be something seriously wrong with the system. It's the least it can do.

    But I don't agree with your comments regarding complaining about poor venues etc. If they are bad, why not complain? Why put up with it? My whole point was about how the whole system needs to be improved and made more efficient and effective for all involved.

    And you're right that some bands have egos, expect things, etc. You do have to work hard. Hence my comments about doing it yourself
  20. avatar boarsheadtaverncheapside
    Fair play hazerockon but I should clarify that when I said 'go through the hoops' I only meant something like - put in thousands of hours of work for next to nothing.
  21. avatar Deestroyer
    You're right in that it's fair enough to make legitimate complaints if something is truly substandard, but it's just that quite often complaints are made by bands who seem to carry some sense of entitlement that prompts no end of eye-rolling on these boards.
    The main point is, everyone is frustrated. Even the bands that are doing well are frustrated by their next barrier to entry, then the next, then the next. From speaking to bands at every level (teenage pub bands to international touring types), being in a band means constant frustration, work, difficult circumstances and regularly jumping through the proverbial hoop. Whether it's trying to get a festival slot, then trying to headline a festival tent, then the next year trying to get the main stage, the next year trying to get your album promoted on the radio, the next year trying to headline the main stage, then trying to get positive reviews for your second album, then trying to get a good label for the third album, struggling with the ticket sales over the tour, networking ad nauseum to get coverage in Q or Kerrang or whatever it is and so on and so forth. The struggle is never over and this is only the very, very beginning of the process.
  22. avatar Deestroyer
    And just to clarify, my point is just a general one. These things...

    [quote:ffd52cb999]
    1. Poor publicity - They fail to advertise the gig online, except for maybe their own myspace and think that this is acceptable. They don't advertise the gig in any newspapers and do not put up posters (except for maybe in the actual venue itself, on the night). This equates to a very poor turnout.
    2. Don't spread the wealth - I played a gig under a well known promoter in Belfast a good while back, with our band bringing most of the crowd. Did we receive a penny for it? No. Were we thanked? No. Will we use them again? No.
    3. Poor communication with the bands - There is nothing worse than showing up to a gig and being told "I thought you guys were bringing the drum kit?". Or an amp is supplied and it's faulty etc. As a promoter, surely these technical issues should be key.[/quote:ffd52cb999]

    ...are all fair points and absolutely worth raising. I guess I'm just complaining about people complaining. :O
  23. avatar Deadlights
    loads of very true and valid points on this thread. Id agree with a lot of the above, being in a band myself and having gigged about the local circuit for the last couple of years our band have definitely experienced our fair share of great and fucking terrible gigs. I'll be honest too, i dont know if its because we just stopped asking a while ago, but i could count on one hand how many times we've ever been paid anything. Sure travel expenses would be nice, but i do count ourselves lucky living in lisburn that most venues arent far, and so it's not the end of the world. Ive seen, and really do feel for bands travelling down to Belfast etc from the north coast, or omagh etc and not getting a penny. Yeah i understand sometimes its nearly down to the alignment of the moon whether a crowd shows even after all the promo in the world, but again we've done the gigs where we bring a crowd and still get nothing, both frustrating. You definitely learn fast who's worth working with and who's a dead loss.

    On the point of bands not keeping in touch with promoters and acting professional, i agree completely, its just ignorant and lazy. Our drummers got a blackberry plus we all check the band email account a few times daily, and i cant tell you how many times we've got that last minute gig offer or had promoters come back to us asking to play again because we were - quick to reply, reliable, easy to get on with, got to the soundcheck on time and played our best even to a small crowd. Thats surely the least any band can do.

    Ive no idea what the answer is, i dont honestly expect to ever get 'big' as such, i just enjoy playing and getting our music about the place. Even a few strangers coming up to you after a gig and saying they like your tunes is rewarding in itself, but that's just me looking at it from a 'great hobby' perspective. It's what YOU want out of it I suppose. One thing's for sure, i echo everyone who's said if you want to get anywhere - work your wee balls off, because this is a scene with a lot of great bands, a lot of venues, and a shit load of promoters and events happening day in day out. Getting a crowd, the right people at a crowd, and making anything out of it is hard work!

    The one tip i'd always give bands who are struggling to get together some money for recording or whatever, is get a good venue hired like Annies or Laverys (the free'er the better!) and invite some bands you genuinely love and get on well with. Promo the absolute arse off it and ask all the bands to bring as many mates etc as they can, having agreed to split the profits. Its hard work even at that, but at least everyones a winner with the same interest at heart and you've hopefully had a good gig, and of course, kept the soundman sweet :D

    Mark
  24. avatar savagebilliards
    Haze you make some valid points.

    However, adopting a fuck you attitude to press and promotors etc wont necessarily help you -cos what do they owe you?
    Our band, being from the punk scene and having a ska element, has found it very difficult to get onto playing different events, getting radio play, press coverage etc. But with hard work and TIME, its happening and i would say we are doing very well (far beyond my expectations -many bands dont get out of their garage.)
    We have not had to kiss ass or adapt really in anyway, what we had to do and are still working hard on doing is getting tight and writing good songs and continually pushing our music. Thats when people listen and when you recieve more attention.

    Not being cheeky at all just want you to clarify:

    What do you consider as doing well?
    What are your aspirations and how do you wish to achieve them?

    all the best, Chris
  25. avatar Nocarsgo
    Just want to make clear, I agree with most of your points apart from the media ones.

    [quote:1441aa3271]Yeah, well, I think it's f*#ked up that bands feel they have to suck up and "go through the hoops" to get attention. Balls to that. I'm sick of that kind of mentality, that for some reason has become taken as granted these days. It's complete rubbish. [b:1441aa3271]If all the media want is trendy friendly stuff, f*#k 'em.

    If you're good, you're good. The media etc can't change that.[/b:1441aa3271] If people listen, they listen. We for one are not prepared to go through the hoops. We set up our own gigs, promote our own stuff, and f*#k whatever anybody says about us. [/quote:1441aa3271]

    Who said anything about sucking up? And "going through hoops to get attention"? What really is so difficult about keeping an up to date website, having a mailing list, posting on Fastfude and sending EPs or even demos for reviews from places like ATL, AU, Bruised Fruit, Gigging NI, All Gone Pop or anywhere like that?
    I'm not saying you have to whore yourself out at music industry parties, like.

    The media here are relatively friendly and constructive towards getting bands more attention. Yes, without doubts there's cliques but that occurs everywhere and in a perfect world that wouldn't exist. Yet in a perfect world an amazing band could play in somewhere like the Black Box and after a few notes thousands of people would rush in to hear this incredible new sound. It's not going to happen.

    The media aren't going to make you change your sound, they're not going to make you good just because they say so. They may, however, get your music out to a few more people.


    [quote:1441aa3271]In terms of contacts, it's also very hard for a young musician to even know where to begin.[/quote:1441aa3271]

    In Belfast at least, I know that the Oh Yeah Music Centre can be very handy for young promoters or musicians. In terms of gaining contacts it can be a question of just asking for help or advice on here, going to an OpemMusicMedia meetup or asking ones you're supporting with or playing with.
  26. avatar hazerockon
    No offence taken. I actually agree with what you're saying about writing and pushing your music.

    Personally, aspiration wise, sky's the limit. We're a fairly new band on the scene, but we've all got a lot of experience from completely different musical backgrounds, so we know what we're doing.

    In terms of what I consider as doing well; getting signed. Once signed, you're free to create art. They pay the expensive recording studios etc etc and you get to write music and perform professionally.

    They way we aim to achieve all of this is through playing gigs and winning fans. Once you have the fans, everything falls into place
  27. avatar Deadlights
    [quote:87c869d2d3]In Belfast at least, I know that the Oh Yeah Music Centre can be very handy for young promoters or musicians. In terms of gaining contacts it can be a question of just asking for help or advice on here, going to an OpemMusicMedia meetup or asking ones you're supporting with or playing with.[/quote:87c869d2d3]

    Definitely, we found it difficult at first but to be honest the owness is on the bands to go looking and really, most of the contacts we have were all there to find from the beginning, make the effort and look them up. You can do a hell of a lot by spending time on here and contacting promoters via myspace and facebook. And as nocarsgo said, get out there and speak to people in place like the Oh yeah, that's what they are there for. Plus when you're at gigs, go have a chat with the other bands, chances are theyve done it all themselves and will be decent enough to pass on any other names and numbers to chase up.
  28. avatar hazerockon
    "What really is so difficult about keeping an up to date website, having a mailing list, posting on Fastfude and sending EPs or even demos for reviews from places like ATL, AU, Bruised Fruit, Gigging NI, All Gone Pop or anywhere like that"

    Having a job
  29. avatar Nocarsgo
    [quote:bb5ddf8a5f]"What really is so difficult about keeping an up to date website, having a mailing list, posting on Fastfude and sending EPs or even demos for reviews from places like ATL, AU, Bruised Fruit, Gigging NI, All Gone Pop or anywhere like that"

    Having a job.[/quote:bb5ddf8a5f]

    That's less than an hour a week's work if you do it right, seriously. And it will pay off dividends.

    Most (if not all) of the names mentioned above are willing to take digital submissions, so you don't even need to pay for postage or material costs.
  30. avatar savagebilliards
    Your positive outlook and determination is a great start.

    Unfortunatley having fans doesnt guarantee you anything - good PR work does pay off no end.

    Getting signed is not it all - getting good support slots, doing a good sounding EP/album, headlining some well attended gigs would possibly be a better way of measuring succss, i think anyway.

    Dont forget you can do an album DIY and have a distribution label without being 'signed' per se.

    On that note I have noticed a lot of bands releasing cds but not having digital distribution.
    Anyone any ideas why? (bar the feck all money you get from downloads of course - but then it aint all about the coin)

    Good thread.
  31. avatar clss_act_00
    I used to think it'd be great to get signed and stuff, whatever that actually means nowadays. But being in a band is a lot more enjoyable when you treat it (as Deadlights mentioned) like a really great hobby. Sure, if something comes of it fantastic, but it's great to just play live to a few people who wanna hear your tunes. Managing to pull a few nice supports, pack a venue for a headline gig, release a cd and get people loving it - all bonuses!

    In saying all that, the bands that are "getting somewhere" are a combination of two things:
    1. Good quality tunes and performance
    2. Willingness to work their asses off.

    Both are needed to some degree. May be more of one than the other. That's how I see it anyway
  32. avatar Sadoldgit
    You wont make money playing in a band - accept that and take any earnings as a bonus.
    If you want to earn, play bad covers and do the wedding circuit.

    If you play rock music , you will largely be ignored - not nice, but get the gigs you can then get the feck outa Dodge and gig on mainland UK or europe - the only thing that promoters and media are interested in here is Indie, sad , but true...or , sack your vocalist and become a post rock band...though I suspect that particular bubble will burst soon enough.

    Even to make a bum basic demo is gonna cost.....and you are unlikely to sell all the copies , so stick the remainder in the loft and hope you can flog them on ebay for megabucks when you get signed.....


    oh, and you are highly unlikely to get signed unless you can show big sales for a self released album, unless someone thinks you are going to be the next big flash in the pan thing..but then who wants to be flash in the pan?


    Bottom line.....unless you are megarich, megalucky or become a band with big international sales, dont give up the day job.
    There isnt much money in music.
    If you arent doing it for the love of it , then not much point in doing it TBH.




    As to sound guys......most are pretty decent, though it does piss me off when you see good opening bands with crap sound , and then the "headliner" comes on to sonic perfection.
    To me thats just playing silly buggers.
  33. avatar Danny Lynch
    On the topic of getting signed, although this may not be so applicable for rock music, it seems a pretty damn good way to go is to depress america. Take the likes of Gary Lightbody/Chris Martin... god awful dull boring music, drab vocals for the most part (i realise some songs wont follow this, but just look at chasing cars, yellow and such) These are two pretty average bands, probably not the most technically gifted musicians in the world, but they can write a bloody depressing song, depress teen yanks, and roll in the cash.
    Obviously not applicable to all bands, but America is where the real money is.

    As for the media here, being involved, although in a very minor way, as I am, I do agree with this. It's unfortunate as there is such a wealth of talent in other genres. I think for ATL I'm possibly the only one to have reviewed rock bands in a good while on the site. However, I must point out that this isn't ATL's fault alone- they don't tell reviewers what to review... reviewers usually approach them and ask to be allowed to submit a review, so its as much that there is a lack of reviewers looking to cover metal/rock gigs.

    I think rock bands in this city will always have the grievance of not being at the top of the pile, but it's not altogether a bad thing. There tends not to be the cluster of people at gigs who feel they 'should' be there as with some other gigs. There, in my experience, is a far greater level of comradery and mutual respect between bands, not in a cliquey way, but in a productive way which encourages upcoming bands gives new bands more chances. The Answer have shown its possible.

    As for the original soundmen question, I don't really agree. Had one terrible experience, but otherwise soundmen here have been excellent. (shameless plug alert) Have a shufty at my article on three of the city's finest for a more detailed idea of their jobs- http://www.stereoboard.com/content/view/161135/44
  34. avatar stevie j
    Remember that this is the music BUSINESS, no one owes you a living.

    To 'make it' you have to look beyond the 'fastfude scene' of local musos and focus on the general public.

    The best regular turn out for gigs is at the King's Head and similar venues where party bands are hired to entertain. The public will decide how they want to be entertained, venues are competing against cinema, theatre and TV. The most entertaining will win the punters, and in general an original local band is at the bottom of the list, you have to win people's time and money by being entertaining and the public are like sheep who like what they already know.

    Thin Lizzy played the showband circuit to fund their tours when they were starting, it's all about being flexible and playing to your audience. Local original bands playing local bars is the equivalent of someone begging on the street corner, they may be talented but they're not making the most of themselves as professional musicians. Those making money are playing in several bands playing music, not just original material, there are anomalies but in general,,most successful musicians are not famous.

    If you want to make money and work with pros you have to adapt (or sell out as some might say). IMO, there's no shame in 'selling out' if you are getting the gigs and earning.

    My real point is that your problems are that you are working in a amateur scene and you get what you pay for, you have to either move up or accept it.
  35. avatar frajam
    [quote:8d5dfa36cb]And when you shout "Look at this! Gold!"[/quote:8d5dfa36cb]


    Maybe the response can be, '' Percy........it's green ''

    [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkZFuKHXa7w]Green Gold[/url]
  36. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:69052014bd]depress teen yanks[/quote:69052014bd]

    Teen? Surely the demographic Snow Patrol/Coldplay/et al. aim for is the 20s/30s middle class market?
    Its not that they depress people, the songs are so vapid and generic that the listeners can attribute any feelings and emotions they want to them. Which is essentially the main rule of writing a pop song.
  37. avatar flightstrip
    agree totally with sadoldgit!if u need the coinage then do covers for cash n siphen some of the proceeds off towards doing your own tunes,recording,cds,gear etc.makes sense.i play some real blue rinse shitholes to fund my masturbatory songwriting!
    as for promoters/agents:as in everything else,there are good ones and there are twats.the good ones (like Hels Bels) advertise properly and are actually into the music which helps,the shit ones are more into ripping off the bands,pissing off venues and not paying the soundguy!(i will not mention any names.....yet!lol)
    doing a bit of part time sound work(when i can be arsed!) i think the sound gets better as the night goes on because (mostly) the headline act is usually more experienced and therefore tighter sounding plus all the sound problems have usually been sorted by the time the headline act comes on.more so when bands arrive too late for a soundcheck (which really pisses off soundguys!)

    (advice to promoters....PAY THE FUCKING SOUND GUY!!)
  38. avatar izzys_return
    ok here's my 2 cent. It's been pretty nailed on the head that yes there is great pple/venues and there are notso great ones, so thats been covered. I would like to raise to new bands that people dont come out and see unheard of bands, not only because they arent playing with a band they like always, but because alot of new bands are most often underpracticed and unprofessional (which i know in somepart eeds to be learned). You see these guys come out with great hair and shiny guitars, but the time between songs, the nonsense rambles to fill the void and the songs falling apart because "this is the second time we've tried this" is what puts people off. I'm not saying these bands are crap, as some you can hear bang out a decent tune but then fuck up the next one. I just think if your gonna gig, be the best you can be, watch your heroes and take note of how they deal with song changes, stage presence and ramblings lol

    Also to promoters, it's great to see people use 'new' bands, people do need a first bash at things, but I think more could listen to demos or look for reviews if they are available instead of getting the first 3 bands who apply for the slot. I know this doesnt effect all bands promoters, but if we knew the 'new' bands were the best available then people would be happier goin to gigs as the chances are the entertainment will be at least entertaining
  39. avatar Pavel
    [quote:e103bb92e3]"What really is so difficult about keeping an up to date website, having a mailing list, posting on Fastfude and sending EPs or even demos for reviews from places like ATL, AU, Bruised Fruit, Gigging NI, All Gone Pop or anywhere like that"

    Having a job[/quote:e103bb92e3]

    ...then, and I mean this as utterly rude and condescending as it sounds - probably more so infact.

    [u:e103bb92e3][i:e103bb92e3][b:e103bb92e3]You fail my son.[/b:e103bb92e3][/i:e103bb92e3][/u:e103bb92e3]

    Boo, fucking, hoo to you, and your attitude then chief - I remember running into [b:e103bb92e3]And So I Watch You From Afar[/b:e103bb92e3] and [b:e103bb92e3]LaFaro[/b:e103bb92e3] at three in the fucking morning armed with a ladder, paste and hundreds of posters for [b:e103bb92e3]A Little Solidarity[/b:e103bb92e3] about a month before the gig.

    Says it all, it does guv'nor. Says it all.

    ...still to this day I wish I'd taken a picture. Would have spoken reams against the bullshit that I constantly read on this forum about bands getting passed over, cliques, hilarious claims of promotion, scenes, shit gigs,...snore.

    In my short two and a half years within this fantastic little music community that we have here in [b:e103bb92e3]Northern Ireland[/b:e103bb92e3], there is one absolute truth that I've seen - the work will out.

    None of you do enough (laughably so), I don't do enough (laughably so as well), and those who I believe merit being said to do enough - and by lord they are incredibly few...know they could be doing more.

    EDIT: Here you are in fact - [url=http://pavelware.com/blog/][b:e103bb92e3]Wonderful Blog Post For All To See[/b:e103bb92e3][/url]

    ...I'm not bashful at all, you deserve much more to be said.

    2nd EDIT: ...and much more has been. [url=http://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/matthew-alexander-patton/people-are-just-hilarious-sometimes/421797414110]Facebook Comments[/url]
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  40. avatar hazerockon
    Pavel, in two words, Fuck Up.

    Get your facts staight before bashing people online. You have no idea who I am, how hard I work, or under what circustances.

    I work very hard, both in my job and for my band. I sit up to maybe 1am a lot of nights seeing what I can do to further promote my band, having got up at 7am to go to work. We have 3hr band practise every week at the very least. I work monday to friday, 9 - 5 in a good job, while doing exams to further my career. Not to mention actually performing at gig, putting up posters as you mentioned, designing posters, designing websites, updating websites, and writing actual music. So don't tell me that I don't work hard.

    I thought personal attacks were not meant to happen on this forum? Especially by someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about
  41. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:744aec813f="sadoldgit"]the only thing that promoters and media are interested in here is Indie, sad , but true[/quote:744aec813f]

    [size=200]I AM SO BORED OF THIS ATTITUDE.[/size]
  42. avatar Pavel
    My facts are straight chief, I quoted you - you dug that hole [b:112faaa913]yourself[/b:112faaa913]. Brian if you do all that you say, then why the hell did you say (quoted above quite clearly) that 'having a job' in any way would stop you from performing the simple tasks mentioned by Patrick?

    Why? ...for the love of the almighty, why?

    Are you making a cornered reversal?

    ...seriously, I'm in no way giving you anything you genuinely don't deserve for coming out with that; and you shall find that I'm as placid as they come. Your attitude with that statement literally disgusted me.

    Now on that note, I've said my piece - and people are continuing the conversation on several platforms. Should you continue to disagree with me, that's fine. I have nothing against you chief, and if you genuinely want to take it as a personal sleight that I've ripped you on your 'apparent approach' in attitude then...well, I can't stop you.

    It's a Friday, and lets enjoy the rest of it.
  43. avatar sarahluv
    as someone who has promoted gigs (in glasgow, but often using NI bands) and has paid people properly, i thought i'd throw in my two cents.

    if some of the local promoters are taking the piss, name and shame them, don't use them. also, start promoting your own gigs rather than going to promoters and even if you have a promter, make sure that that your own mailing list/myspace/facebook has the details listed. it's not rocket science.
    Flyer! i never see anyone flyering in belfast. flyers are stupidly cheap. offer something differen than the norm. if it's true that promoters and media are only interested in indie (which i don't agree with(), then set up something new!

    on the thorny subject of funding, i'd recommend going to see the guys at oh yeah and doing a bit of reserach on what arts council funding is available. you can record demos using iphones! it doesn't have to be pricey and surely lots of people have old four tracks lying around.
  44. avatar theotheo
    who said that about media favoring indie music. so off the mark, bbc introducing/AU/hot press have all helped me band a ton, and we're a hardcore band. thats such a cop out, look who are playing reading and leeds on behalf of the bbc introducing ni. so flawed in every sence
  45. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    The initial post seems to say 'it's everyones fault but the bands'. The author essentially follows it up with 'Boo, hoo I have a job'. Don't start a thread called 'let's have a debate' if you're going to throw the toys out of the pram the minute someone disagrees with you.



    P.S. Steven Dedalus is a bitter scene wrecker.
  46. avatar boarsheadtaverncheapside
    Incendiary comments make threads livelier Pavel :)
    However, I didn't see you there when le hellfires et lotion opened for ASIWYFA in the Pavillion a few years ago... I didn't see anyone there! They were quality though. Anwyay, I have no idea how they turned that into headlining a full Ulster Hall in 2 years, but it certainly wasn't through mere graft. Craft and graft and team work and lots of other stuff besides perhaps, you'd have to ask them. For some people graft is an obsession, they enjoy it like monks whipping themsleves until their backs are bloody.
  47. avatar hazerockon
    Pavel, you quoted one thing I said. In relation to myself, you'll find that earlier in the thread I said: "We set up our own gigs, promote our own stuff, and f*#k whatever anybody says about us. We held a gig in the Black Box in late June, we're headlining the Ulster Grand Prix in August, and we're holding another night in the Limelight in October".

    My reference of "having a job" was to do with people that are working all the time, don't have fiancial support from mummy and daddy, and barely make enough to get by. So in other words, you've taken one thing i've said in this entire thread, and used it out of context. Prick

    And Sir Bob Gelding, I think you'll see that the tread is called "Fellow musicians...". I agree that some bands are unprofessional, of course they are some.
  48. avatar flightstrip
    [img:ae93ed0b7a]http://www.everyview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Beavis_and_Butt-head.gif[/img:ae93ed0b7a]
    heheheh...u said prick...hehehehe

    i luv the civility on here,it makes me hard bellow the waist
  49. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    [quote:b165f1ee87]And Sir Bob Gelding, I think you'll see that the tread is called "Fellow musicians...". I agree that some bands are unprofessional, of course they are some.[/quote:b165f1ee87]

    It's actually called 'Fellow Muscians...', but I thought it would be as petty as Tom to mention it in this [i:b165f1ee87]thread[/i:b165f1ee87].
  50. avatar TheJaneBradfords
    "In terms of what I consider as doing well; getting signed. Once signed, you're free to create art."

    You're free to create art now. Once signed you may find yourself with less freedom to create art. Home recording has never been as viable nor as cheap while labels have never been under as much pressure to make money out of artists (thus arguably allowing the artist less free reign creatively).
  51. avatar Steven Dedalus
    Shane, just when I think you're an unbearable, pedantic buffoon, you go and do something like this:

    [quote:a8a90b7cb3="Sir Bob Gelding"]
    someone wrote:
    And Sir Bob Gelding, I think you'll see that the tread is called "Fellow musicians...". I agree that some bands are unprofessional, of course they are some.
    It's actually called 'Fellow Muscians...', but I thought it would be as petty as Tom to mention it in this thread.

    [/quote:a8a90b7cb3]

    [size=200]And totally redeem yourself![/size]

    But getting back on topic, I think the point Matt is making is that there are bands who will go out there and go the extra mile, and if they have the determination to stick at it, then things will happen.

    And it's not just a question of being out there at 3.00am putting up posters or whatever, it's a question of being committed to a realistic idea of what you want.

    ASIWYFA knew what they wanted, and then devoted themselves to doing it. And by a large part, they've succeeded on their own terms. They went out there, worked hard, charmed the pants off everyone, and made the most of every opportunity presented to them. Not everyone can do this, but it goes a long way.

    But the real point here is what people consider to be a realistic idea of success. Hazerockon - you mentioned earlier that you consider success to be getting a record deal and being signed and being free to be creative 24/7.

    To me, that simply doesn't sound realistic in any sense of the word. Musically speaking, we're living in uncertain times. "Success" just doesn't mean what it used to, and the sooner people start to realise that, the better.
  52. avatar Sadoldgit
    Steven

    Its a fact of life that the music scene here is very much indie biased.
    Not much point in complaining when people point it out.

    As to the notion that you can record a demo on your iphone...sorry, we have a highly sophisticated audience out there who will only accept high quality material, high quality packaging, and then want it for next to nothing.
    CD`s dont make money, they are simply a promotional tool.

    Sending CD`s out to all and sundry? - most end up in the bin I suspect.

    Gear costs, recording time costs, buying a van to tour the UK costs.....with no guarantee you will make any money at all.

    Bottom line is, all you may end up with is a few ep`s and a self produced album to impress your teenage kids with in your 40`s .
    Most bands dont make it, so the only reason for doing it in the end has to be fun.
  53. avatar hazerockon
    If your right Steven, regarding after being signed, then it is sad times indeed. TheJaneBradfords, I get what you're saying. Of course we are writing music now. But with all the other distractions (promoting, working, rehearsing, performing, etc), it's hard to get the time to actually sit down and write [b:ac126a2183]loads[/b:ac126a2183] of material. I mean, you hear the stories of the older days, with Zeppelin, Beatles, etc. They took trips to places, took loads of drugs and spent the whole time writing music. Not having to worry about money or whatever.
    I always imagined that if you got signed, if you were good enough, the studio would pay for you to sit in the studio writing music for like a month.
    Did you ever see that RHCP dvd "Funky Monks"? Just looks like awesome fun.
    I can dream ....
  54. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:b0c5879ddb="Sad Old Git"]Its a fact of life that the music scene here is very much indie biased.
    Not much point in complaining when people point it out.

    [/quote:b0c5879ddb]

    In recent months, BBC Introducing has recorded the Decade of Aggression gig at the Limelight, put on a tribute to Therapy?, does a monthly metal line-up with James Loveday, sessioned Slomatics, etc.

    We regularly play bands such as Stand-Up Guy, Skypilot, Bandwagon, Ozzmium, etc.

    Rock and metal are a corner-stone of what we do.

    [quote:b0c5879ddb="Hazerockon"]I mean, you hear the stories of the older days, with Zeppelin, Beatles, etc. They took trips to places, took loads of drugs and spent the whole time writing music. Not having to worry about money or whatever.
    I always imagined that if you got signed, if you were good enough, the studio would pay for you to sit in the studio writing music for like a month.
    [/quote:b0c5879ddb]

    This will not happen.

    The music industry of the 70s had been dead for several decades now.

    Listen to what The Jane Bradfords are saying. Listen to what I'm saying.


    The music industry has fundamentally changed. The sooner you realise this, the better.
  55. avatar stevie j
    Why should anyone pay for you to sit around for a month getting stoned?

    It sounds like you want all the glory without putting in the work, you forget that before Led Zep were big, Jimmy Page was one of the most in demand session players in the UK, all due to his own hard work. Most of the 30+ year old acts who still sell out arenas and stadiums are the same league. They were supported financially because someone thought they would make a profit off them. At the same time there were hundreds of bands with equally good musicians who didn't put in the work or have the contacts needed to make it. Life sucks, either accept it or try harder
  56. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClcwKgxu2wk]Steven Dedalus, yesterday[/url]
  57. avatar Steven Dedalus
    My hair is far worse than that.
  58. avatar T Entertainment
    Steven Edward Rainey only gives coverage to bands that look like this:

    [img:36cd16ff08]http://lookatthisfuckinhipster.com/uploads/pics/big/792-618.jpg[/img:36cd16ff08]

    in the vain hope that the kids will consider him one of their own.
    AND TO DO THIS, HE DENIES COVERAGE *OF ANY KIND* TO METAL BANDS.
    HE IS TO BLAME! HE IS THE ONE!
  59. avatar rentaghost
    That photo is like Uber Glitterati Mini Pops!
  60. avatar hazerockon
    Of course I understand you have to put the work in first. I was just saying that that's what I would hope for if we got signed, ie we had put the work in to getting signed.

    Crazy
  61. avatar rentaghost
    [quote:db54fda8a6]Flyer! i never see anyone flyering in belfast. flyers are stupidly cheap. offer something differen than the norm. if it's true that promoters and media are only interested in indie (which i don't agree with(), then set up something new![/quote:db54fda8a6]

    word to the wise - flyering is about to become illegal
  62. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    I hear Steven Dedalus lures the young bands in with promises of getting them in In! magazine. Then he adds them to what he calls 'the Human Scene Centipede.'
  63. avatar savagebilliards
    Please stop mentioning that fuckin human centipede! I have been having bad dreams ever since watching that bollox film :lol:! It reminds me of when i saw Nightmare on Elm St when i was in P4. Niall I blame you you git!
  64. avatar Deestroyer
    Did you watch it? You mad bastard. I wouldn't go within 100ft of anything even suggesting screening that. I can't even say it. *shiver* I read the synopsis on wikipedia and watched the trailer and accordingly freaked the fuck out.
  65. avatar T Entertainment
    Having just listened to the Star Spangled Badgers, I don't think you should waste too much energy or time worrying about what may or may not happen if you get signed.
    Unless there is about to be an explosion of interest in the A&R fraternity in the second division pub-funk rock scene.
  66. avatar hazerockon
    Haha, cheers T Entertainment ;)
  67. avatar savagebilliards
    Sorry my post was not accurate - I mean watched the trailer and a load of cilps and things, not the whole movie - get to fuck!
    Read the synopsis too.
    Its crap (ha ha) but the thing that gets me is how can this seemingly intelligent (ok while mental) guy think that it would work? It doesnt explain how the gastric systems can be joined cos essentially its just sewing someones mouth to an anus and the same again behind. Thats not sharing a gastric system its just shitting in somones mouth surely!?

    Anyway way off topic. Would the human centipede make it in the belfast scene?
  68. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    [quote:ca375ced55]Anyway way off topic. Would the human centipede make it in the belfast scene?[/quote:ca375ced55]

    I heard that it/they have already signed to Smalltown America.
  69. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:79117a8275]Would the human centipede make it in the belfast scene?[/quote:79117a8275]If they were playing instrumental post rock, then yeah.

    Only jokin forfucksakecalmdown.
  70. avatar savagebilliards
    maybe they would be better djing and using the money from that to fund their real musical career. Or start a tribute band called 'feedher' (shudder!)
  71. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    The complete lack of backing vocals is a bit of an handicap....






    If you'll excuse me, I'm off to scrub myself with bleach.
  72. avatar savagebilliards
    Ha ha ha!quality!

    Is it wrong that i think it would have been better if there were more of them and the doc essentially created the world's first gastric system sharing ring donut?!
  73. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    like the large hadron collider, but far, [i:b6d2593fbd]far[/i:b6d2593fbd] more disturbing?
  74. avatar Deestroyer
    Well, we would definitely see the creation of black holes.

    I'm sooooo sorry.
  75. avatar Deestroyer
    [img:a6a15be116]http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/1/128673365110887685.jpg[/img:a6a15be116]
  76. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:2c78a46e7d][quote:2c78a46e7d]Sad Old Git wrote:
    Its a fact of life that the music scene here is very much indie biased.
    Not much point in complaining when people point it out.[/quote:2c78a46e7d]

    In recent months, BBC Introducing has recorded the Decade of Aggression gig at the Limelight, put on a tribute to Therapy?, does a monthly metal line-up with James Loveday, sessioned Slomatics, etc.

    We regularly play bands such as Stand-Up Guy, Skypilot, Bandwagon, Ozzmium, etc.

    Rock and metal are a corner-stone of what we do.[/quote:2c78a46e7d]

    Stop confusing him with facts, you can make facts say anything.
    Remember when he says "indie based" he means "not my son's band".
  77. avatar T Entertainment
    BBC Introducing do loads of metal, ffs the last time I saw Rainey was at the Electric Red album launch on Wednesday, which they were covering! And it ruined my night.
    Having someone like James Loveday on means it's dealt with in a grown up and matter of fact way - there is no one more authoritative in Belfast.
    I mean really, this has been an occasional hobby horse of mine about metal getting a rough ride sometimes but credit should be given when it's due (much as I hate defending Rainey under any circumstances).
  78. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:7ddbe32c0f]As to the notion that you can record a demo on your iphone...[/quote:7ddbe32c0f]

    No-one suggested you could do that, but its an easy strawman to fight.
    What was suggested was that home recording/production is well within the means of most people now: multitrack recorders are very inexpensive and for the price I paid for a cheap single input 4 track tape machine a decade ago you can now buy a multi-track, multi-input 24bit, CD quality digital recorder. Or if you already have a computer/laptop, audio interfaces that do professional quality are similarly cheap.

    I'm always amazed at how quickly after inception bands try to release an EP. It used to be that a band would be playing together for 3 or 4 years, honing the music before thinking about putting together a 2 track single. Bands seem to be holding EP release parties earlier and earlier and then wondering why no-one buys the CDs? If you need to make a demo for promoters then do that, and fire it in on a CDR, don't get 500 copies of your bands first 4 songs and then wonder why you have a stack of unsold discs in the cupboard under the stairs.
  79. avatar boarsheadtaverncheapside
    The meeja here seem a decent bunch who will give anything of substance a fair crack of the whip irrespective of style.
    If everyone bought stuff off the musicians they liked it would help the people making it to make more. The small amount of people into this stuff need to help sustain it. That is independence. I know I am guilty of not doing this sometimes. Also, hard labour is not a badge of honor in my opinion. I can't remember ever meeting a lazy local musician who was gigging and releasing music off their own bat.
  80. avatar sarahluv
    [quote:d105b6681c]As to the notion that you can record a demo on your iphone...sorry, we have a highly sophisticated audience out there who will only accept high quality material, high quality packaging, and then want it for next to nothing.
    CD`s dont make money, they are simply a promotional tool.[/quote:d105b6681c]

    iphone and 4 track recordings can sound pretty great:

    http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/love-is-the-thing-single/id321285228

    do you mean that your audience in particular is highly sophisticated? la di da.

    there are plenty of people out there releasing home recorded stuff which is being well received.
  81. avatar sarahluv
    [quote:3852823e5c] word to the wise - flyering is about to become illegal[/quote:3852823e5c] source?

    you can still leave then in bars and cafes and the like.
  82. avatar Sadoldgit
    Sarah

    I record at home.

    It is technically quite complex recording a rock band with 9 drum tracks.
    You really need the bare minimum of 12 track inputs unless you have a superb drum room sound and can get away with 2 OH`s a kick and snare mic.

    Audiences these days in general are sophisticated and expect bands to produce high quality merchandise.
    Studio time costs - I was speaking to a band tonight looking for 1200 quid to simply reocord a 4 track EP at a local studio.
  83. avatar my-angel-rocks
    And a 16track recorder comes in at $369
  84. avatar JTM
    I'll chip in here to say that if bands want to be recognised or whatever, they need to be

    a) Better than the bands that already exist here that sound exactly like them
    b) Not Shit

    That is all. Be the nugget, not the mud.
  85. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:e279aa32eb="JTM"]I'll chip in here to say that if bands want to be recognised or whatever, they need to be

    a) Better than the bands that already exist here that sound exactly like them
    b) Not Shit

    [/quote:e279aa32eb]

    Fame - meet WAR HOLE.

    In response to the stuff about recording, I'd like to throw my tuppence in (for a change).

    [quote:e279aa32eb="Sad old Git"]Audiences these days in general are sophisticated and expect bands to produce high quality merchandise.
    [/quote:e279aa32eb]

    Whilst this is true, it also kinda works the other way round. Audiences are sophisticated and do expect certain things, but they're also generally savvy enough to be able to cope with recordings that are not of "studio" quality.

    In my experience, if a band has charm, good songs, and are engaging, a home recording will do them just as awell as a full on studio production. It all depends on how you carry yourself.

    And some of us (me) just like that kind of thing anyway.


    [quote:e279aa32eb="my angel rocks"]I'm always amazed at how quickly after inception bands try to release an EP.[/quote:e279aa32eb]

    I totes agree with this.

    It's a moan I've had for a few years now, but no one ever listens (to anything I say). An EP is a unique item - a collection announcing yourself to the world, giving a taste of what you want to do, and what you're offering. It should be 4 - 5 songs.

    It's not the first thing you do after forming a band. It's not 2 songs. It's obligatory.

    As My Angel Rocks said, get out there, write songs. Then wriite better ones. Then gig them to death. Then write more. And when you're satisfied that they're you're best work, make an EP (or a single).

    Although all of this is irrelevant due to the internet, so who cares anyway?
  86. avatar T Entertainment
    "Although all of this is irrelevant due to the internet, so who cares anyway?"

    If thoughts like that are running through your head over and over again, and you just want them to stop, well, if you kill yourself you'll stop thinking.
  87. avatar Hors D'oeuvres
    ....stop producing more worthless plastic to endlessly fill landfill sites? forget about petty aspirations of the post baby-boom years? do something other than buying into this record industry bollocks that sells you an idea you accept without stopping for one second to think critically about the consequences?

    grimace at the fact that you walk through cities at night these days and the only things you (generally) hear from bars are bad covers bands playing journey, stevie wonder/kings of leon or rory gallagher songs.....or else local bands who have bought into aforementioned industry bollocks and are probably quite nice and creative interesting people, who just need to get some totally different life experience in order that they might see beyond what has been fed to them?

    Alot of people I have met, who are in bands, seem to sincerely love music. The thing is, many also seem to have petty egoistic desires for some kind of fame...they want to "be known for" being a certain type of individual. This is what makes lots of music (and more importantly, many musicians) boring to me these days. Everything they do is driven by extra-musical desires....instead of just doing it for the joy of doing it, they want a career out of it.

    as a side note - i don't understand how people can still enjoy going to the same old bars for several years....listening to the same old stuff...drinking the same old stuff....without getting a little bored of it.

    although, if it makes you happy, of course it's good for the world.


    haharanthahapartyhaha
  88. avatar Devilspain
    you wana get to the next step? work your butt off writing good solid material. build yourself a local fan base. get better at playing live shows come up with ways to make your audience listen. save up your money spend it on decent recordings for radio play and also for selling your music. save your money and get PR you gotta spend it to get to the next level. gig everywhere and i dont mean play every available show in your local area cause that will bore your fans, i mean get out and tour ireland and beyond. hassle venue promoters till you get heard and given a chance, noone owes you anything for free in this business but some if hassled enough will give you a chance! its a long slog but its takes years to get anywhere look at the bigger acts snow patrol nearly 10 odd years before they got somewhere, damien rice slogged his way round ireland played every shit venue there was to play... nothing happens over night.

    as was said before update your websites it takes a couple of hours a week and its done shows people what your up too keeps the industry informed. be nice to everyone (not kiss ass but pleasent) dont be shooting your mouth off talking shite cause you'll prob be saying it to the wrong person and it'll come round and bite you in the ass, if things dont go the way you planned you say your P's and Q's and wish whoever the best. dont burn bridges before you get somewhere.

    i did mention spend some money on pr cause they are the people who are gonna sell your music to the people that matter. head of music people in the Radio stations, newpapers, magazines, bloggers, tv producers, A&R's and people who work at getting your music sync'd ( on tv ads and films etc) you gotta spend the green to make it!

    for example in my band, all of us worked our day jobs and threw together our own hard earned money and savings took out loans etc and spent it on pr. From that our music has had national (ireland north and south) publicity. we've been on a shit load of irish radio stations generating sometimes up to 200 plays a week. we've been on national television RTE1, TG4, BBC2. gotten reviews in local and national newspapers. all of it helps spread the word of your music.

    as far as getting paid, sign up to your royality companys PRS, imro, raap etc also sign up to a booking agents get them to organise a few gigs for you, they take a hefty cut but usually they are well paid gigs. we've had a few decent festival slots including a headline slot also some other great gigs from our agent.

    what annoys me our those people who complain about everybody, the soundguys, the promoters, the venues and the media. work your asses off and show people you mean business cause thats what its all about today if you want to make money from a musical career. we arent the best band out there nor are we the most musically gifted but we work our arses of touring, booking, working our jobs to make the money, we dont bitch (much) for which id like to think we've been one of the most successful bands in this music scene the last two years.

    also a bit of luck helps :)

    ta for readin, kev.
  89. avatar whipchorus
    For my new band, we plan on going into the studio next year and getting something out there in about 2019. Then the album will be out in say 2025. I'm thinking more Blue Nile rather than Stone Roses. The kids will be like ''Woah, they're back!'' even though we never really went away, and I'll be raking it in. Then I'll bugger off for another 10 years. Bands need to learn that enigma isn't simply about Sadeness and Gregorian chants.
  90. avatar boarsheadtaverncheapside
    Scratch on accout of inability to carry off carefree, throwoff, humour.
  91. avatar JamLiveRS
    [b:a1acfc1309]Correct me if I'm wrong[/b:a1acfc1309] as for venues, don't they get a grant from the breweries to pay for the entertainment? So why should bands have to pay to play?
    If this is the case then they are getting a percentage of the brewery & charging the bands as well as making from the bar while 4 or 5 bands have to divide the door to pay the sound man & the promoter!
  92. avatar PHOENIXFIREdj
    I agree with @devilspain

    Everyone knows its a pure pain in the hole sometimes but there are the gigs that make it all worth it like radar and gifted and places of the like.

    If it was easy then everyone would be massive.

    Basically everything that @devilspain said just correct. Lol
  93. avatar JTM
    [quote=JamLiveRS]Correct me if I'm wrong as for venues, don't they get a grant from the breweries to pay for the entertainment? [/quote]

    I have never heard of a brewery sponsoring any kind of live music, unless it's got their name attached to it - e.g. Harp Big Gig, Coors Light Open House Festival, Battle Of The Bands at Ma Nelsons in association with Watney's Red Barrel. &c.