1. avatar Andrew
    Interesting article [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8341002.stm]here[/url] on the BBC wesbite.

    I've been stunned by the number of ex-vegetarians eating fish these days. What's the deal?

    On a similar note, are there any sober 'straight edgers' left in Belfast, or are they all drinking gin and puffing cigars at burlesque nights?
  2. avatar T Entertainment
    Fish?! I know of plenty of right on veggies who are now regularly munching on cows, sheep and pigs.
  3. avatar Rock Danger
    [quote:4f120f9da2="Andrew"]
    I've been stunned by the number of ex-vegetarians eating fish these days. What's the deal?[/quote:4f120f9da2]

    It's probably cause the nutritional equiv tastes like pish.
  4. avatar himynameissween
    [quote:ff8db9b2b8="Andrew"]I've been stunned by the number of ex-vegetarians eating fish these days. What's the deal?[/quote:ff8db9b2b8]they're known as "pescatarians". someone i know actually did this and their reason for it was a health thing.

    call me a cynical bastard but i think some people think it's just not "scene" anymore to be vegetarian. not saying all ex-veggies/current veggies were/are trend followers, i myself am an ex-veggie (i went veggie to support a friend who decided to turn vegan, and it kind of stuck for 2 years, but i sucked as a veggie and gave into temptation) but a few years ago i remember a lot of people suddenly taking up vegetarianism completely out of the blue, and i aways saw it as a scene thing back then.

    again, i'm just a cynical idiot.

    [img:ff8db9b2b8]http://radhikageorge.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/can_of_worms.jpg[/img:ff8db9b2b8]
  5. avatar carriedavenport
    [img:78499b0690]http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/carriedavenport/11453_172321251948_510966948_337419.jpg[/img:78499b0690]

    I love this one best veggie ad ever :)
  6. avatar tinpot anto
    I've been a vegetarian for almost 20 years now.

    I don't have any inclination to eat fish.

    good use of sunflower oils and walnuts etc can adequately cover all the bodies need for DHA and EPA and so forth, without the concominant mercury, PCBs and dioxins found in our filthy seas and lovingly collected in the nice oily flesh of fishy mcfishner

    Been considering the wisdom of algal supplements just to see if they have any effect, dear bastards though.

    I DRINK like a fish, if that helps?
  7. avatar Andrew
    [quote:fac7c312db="himynameissween"]they're known as "pescatarians". someone i know actually did this and their reason for it was a health thing.[/quote:fac7c312db]

    These health-conscious 'pescies' have obviously cut out booze and fags as well, then, yeah?

    I haven't eaten a fish since 1987. Am I doomed?
  8. avatar himynameissween
    [quote:762cc97f8b="Andrew"][quote:762cc97f8b="himynameissween"]they're known as "pescatarians". someone i know actually did this and their reason for it was a health thing.[/quote:762cc97f8b]

    These health-conscious 'pescies' have obviously cut out booze and fags as well, then, yeah?

    I haven't eaten a fish since 1987. Am I doomed?[/quote:762cc97f8b]nah you'll be fine. haha.
  9. avatar carriedavenport
    you grown gills yet then anto? :lol:

    20 yrs is yonks - I'm only a part-timer compared to you.
  10. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:e7082f0d19="Andrew"]On a similar note, are there any sober 'straight edgers' left in Belfast, or are they all drinking gin and puffing cigars at burlesque nights?[/quote:e7082f0d19]

    Hello!
    There are still straight edgers in Belfast, but you can literally count them on the fingers of one hand. To my knowledge the only ones that are left now of the old ones are Phil, Conor, Pete and Hornby (or so I am told). Plus there would be Cormac, but now he's in Belfast. Also to my knowledge, I think I might be the only one of the 'new generation'.

    Anyway, on to the topic of the whole pescatarian thing.
    The thing that as a veggie pisses me off the most is the fact that, as in the article, people use the term 'part-vegetarian' which is basically an untold heap of shite. You either are vegetarian or you aren't, there is no way inbetween. Yet some people do use that sort of terminology and do try to identify with the 'vegetarian community' as if they were vegetarians, with far too many people actually accomodating about this pescatarian bullshit.
    Even worse if these people call themselves vegetarians and eat fish then accusing you of being close minded or orthodox (like that idiot woman in the article) which quite frankly is equally bullshit. There is no issue of close mindedness or orthodoxy, it's as simple as a matter of definition: you eat meat, you are not a vegetarian. End of story.

    [/rant]
  11. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:f7e6c2fb3a]you eat meat, you are not a vegetarian. End of story.[/quote:f7e6c2fb3a]I'm confused. Where do non-vegan vegetarians then stand? Is that not the source of the gray area. If you eat some animal products, eggs, gelatin, oils, for example then where's the cut of point for fish? Is it arbitrary? Are you making the rules? I agree there may be a line in the sand, but surely it lies only reliably between vegans and all other non vegans (i.e. everyone else, aka carnivores). No?
  12. avatar Chi-Lite
    Well it just depends why you're a vegetarian, doesn't it.

    If you're vegetarian just because you can't bear to see the wee cutesy wee animals getting kiwlled then you probably shouldn't eat the cutesy wee fish.

    Maybe you have some moral issue with eating living things, but vegetables are alive too.

    Maybe it's conscious things, but then consciousness is a spectrum and it's hard to know where to draw the line. Fish are barely conscious, like.

    Personally I love all the meat. Mmmmm lovely bits of animal flesh. Yeehaa.
  13. avatar daveshorty
    the long and short of it is... all vegans are right and everyone else is wrong.
  14. avatar Recycled Alien
    Well, there's a difference between eggs and gelatin in that extracting one of them kills the animal!
  15. avatar Recycled Alien
    Marty, I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat meat (or fish) because of the disproportionate environmental impact. It's a moral issue in that way, but not as far as killing for food is concerned.
  16. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:d5684d1a69="Recycled Alien"]Well, there's a difference between eggs and gelatin in that extracting one of them kills the animal![/quote:d5684d1a69]Well, the other often amounts to a short horrific existence of confinement and mistreatment it's arguable whether that's better or worse. This is neither here nor there however, I am fully aware how eggs are made and where we get gelatin from. It was just an example of an animal product commonly eaten by 'vegetarians'.
  17. avatar T Entertainment
    "Maybe you have some moral issue with eating living things, but vegetables are alive too."

    You've worked in that place too long.
  18. avatar tinpot anto
    I think much the same, plus I think if you eat meat, but do not have the stomach to kill an animal you are basically the worst type of hypocrite.
  19. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:bc1f475bdc="Deestroyer"]I'm confused. Where do non-vegan vegetarians then stand? Is that not the source of the gray area. If you eat some animal products, eggs, gelatin, oils, for example then where's the cut of point for fish? Is it arbitrary? Are you making the rules? I agree there may be a line in the sand, but surely it lies only reliably between vegans and all other non vegans (i.e. everyone else, aka carnivores). No?[/quote:bc1f475bdc]

    Well, no. As said it's a matter of definition: by definition a vegetarian is someone that doesn't eat meat and fish are made of meat. Therefore if you do eat fish and therefore eat meat you cannot be a vegetarian because that's a contradiction in terms and definition.

    However you do raise good points.
    There is indeed a grey area between eating meat and the consumption of byproducts and therefore a problematic situation between veganism and vegetarianism that more often than not causes a lot of tension between the two groups.
    Vegetarianism, and I do openly admit it, is not a 'perfect' philosophy when it comes to the issue of ethics and the killing/exploitation of animals. Indeed most byproducts are produced very often through painful processes for the animal both physically and psychologically (especially for what regards the milk industry), if not outright death.
    This quite crucial flaw has obviously been picked up by vegans, some of which often accuse vegetarians of making a half-assed choice and asking the always very annoying question of "why are you not vegan?". This, as said above, has caused quite serious issues and conflict between vegans and vegetarians with the result that a lot of the time vegans and vegetarians are not as united as one would think.

    However the crucial point lies with how vegetarians see their being vegetarian. Obviously the criticism is turthful if it is seen as the goal, however there are a lot of vegetarians that see vegetarianism just as the starting point with veganism being the obvious next step.

    [quote:bc1f475bdc="Chi-Lite"]Maybe you have some moral issue with eating living things, but vegetables are alive too.
    [/quote:bc1f475bdc]

    That is a common misunderstanding.
    Ethically it is not at all about the concept of eating living things, it's more about eating sentient beings. The issue, as partially explained in the BBC article, is to do with wether a being is crucially about feeling pain.
    The reason why plants are eaten and animals are not is the fact that animals (and quite a large range of insects) can feel pain and plants cannot in virtue of the fact that animals possess a central nervous system and plants do not.
  20. avatar Chi-Lite
    Aye but surely it's more about giving the lives of animals a disproportionate value?

    If it's all about pain, does that mean you wouldn't mind if it was done painlessly? If we gassed all the animals to death?
  21. avatar distracted
    I don't eat meat and haven't done so for 21 years. My general line is 'nothing with a face', as I don't eat anything that's lived. And although some shellfish don't have faces, I don't eat those either.
    <p>
    I don't agree with the vegetarians who eat fish calling themselves vegetarians, surely that's not the right definition. I don't know how many times I heard people say 'Yeah, I'm vegetarian, but I eat fish.' Well, you're not vegetarian then.
    <p>
    I'm not vegan, as I do eat eggs, but I don't eat anything with gelatine, animal rennet and certain other additives, such as lecithin - I always try to get products with soya lecithin in. I sound like a right anal bore now.
    <P>
    Anyway, I went vegetarian for cruelty reasons, not for health reasons (anyone who's seen me will vouch for the fact that I am not your 'typical' (whatever that is) skinny pale vegetarian) or because of peer pressure or anything like that. I don't think I could bring myself to eat meat even if I wanted to, and it's been so long since I did I probably wouldn't have a clue what it's meant to taste like anyway, so I wouldn't bother trying it.
    <P>
    I remember a twat of a chef saying to me once 'You're a bit fat for a vegetarian aren't you?' Nice.
  22. avatar tinpot anto
    Killing an animal to eat it is a luxury, not a necessity, especially not in the super food abundant Northern hemisphere.

    It would be better if the animal was just left alone and not killed. If you are going to kill it at least have a decent reason for it above the habit of eating meat and it's availability.

    Think "Hold on, do I really need an animal to die to stop me feeling hungry?"

    No you don't.

    BTW distracted, non-soy lecithin is usually sourced from eggs, so if you eat eggs lecithin is sound too.
  23. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:a943ae576f="Chi-Lite"]Aye but surely it's more about giving the lives of animals a disproportionate value?

    If it's all about pain, does that mean you wouldn't mind if it was done painlessly? If we gassed all the animals to death?[/quote:a943ae576f]

    Not at all.
    It has nothing to do with giving the lives of animals a disproportionate value. Plants can't feel pain, animals can. There is no subjective evaluation of one life over another, it's a judgement made on objective facts.

    The problem then with killing painlessly is not actually a real problem at all. It's not about wether animals do actually feel pain when they are killed, it's about the concept that animals are capable of feeling pain. The whole ethic theory is based on capability of animals to feel pain and on the judgement based on that fact, that holds that it is cruel/unjust/whatever to kill an animal on the principle of capability of pain.
  24. avatar savagebilliards
    Here is a question. I dont really care like but was just wondering. Is 'straight edge' just a label or do straight edgers actively refer to themselves as such in the same way Punks call themselves punks, or goths - goths or whatever?

    I stopped being veggie as I got a craving for meat and just went with it! no turning back i'm afraid.
  25. avatar Deestroyer
    Fair enough Anto and well said, but the original point isn't the worthiness of not killing animals. The point was, in response to Positive Youth's comments, is the difference between a vegetarian and a non vegetarian not to a certain extent arbitrary.

    You say it's about pain. Why not intelligence or life span, contribution to the eco-system, endagerment to humans, market value, evolutionary complexity, size, cuteness, resemblance to Jedward?

    [edit: removed unnecessary cheekiness.]
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  26. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:3d2df4f6a6="savagebilliards"]Here is a question. I dont really care like but was just wondering. Is 'straight edge' just a label or do straight edgers actively refer to themselves as such in the same way Punks call themselves punks, or goths - goths or whatever?[/quote:3d2df4f6a6]

    Not different at all fram punks calling themselves punks and whatnot.
    However more than a matter of labeling, or self-labeling, it's for a matter of 'practicality' in the sense that Straight Edge by this stage is seen not only as a specific lifestyle choice but at a cohesive philosophy. Obviously at the start it was just a matter of no booze, no drugs and no occasional sex. but with time it has naturally developed a specific philosophy that tries to explain why of such a choice, which are the deeper implications of such a choice and so on.
    But for som people it is just a matter of labelling and "belonging to the group".

    [quote:3d2df4f6a6="Deestroyer"]Fair enough Anto and well said, but the original point isn't the worthiness of not killing animals. The point was, in response to Positive Youth's comments, is the difference between a vegetarian and a non vegetarian not to a certain extent arbitrary.
    [/quote:3d2df4f6a6]

    Once again, no. It's a matter of definition. It's as clear cut as I already said: vegetarian means you don't eat mat, if you eat meat you cannot be vegetarian.

    [quote:3d2df4f6a6="Deestroyer"]
    It's a about pain is it? Why not intelligence or life span, contribution to the eco-system, endagerment to humans, market value, evolutionary complexity, size, cuteness, resemblance to Jedward? [/quote:3d2df4f6a6]

    But the capability of pain is just ONE of the reasons. It's just used as the most obvious ethical reasons, but it is not by any means the only reason to become vegetarian.
  27. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:e50d4e18f3]Think "Hold on, do I really need an animal to die to stop me feeling hungry?"

    No you don't.[/quote:e50d4e18f3]

    But those vegetables just don't fill me!

    [quote:e50d4e18f3]It's not about wether animals do actually feel pain when they are killed, it's about the concept that animals are capable of feeling pain. The whole ethic theory is based on capability of animals to feel pain and on the judgement based on that fact, that holds that it is cruel/unjust/whatever to kill an animal on the principle of capability of pain.[/quote:e50d4e18f3]

    What judgement is that? Why is it wrong to kill an animal painlessly because it can feel pain, even if it doesn't feel it? I can understand why you would say it's wrong to cause pain, but how does being capable of feeling pain give value to life?

    And while we're talking about what people call themselves, surely you can only call yourself a vegetarian if you only eat vegetables and nothing else?
  28. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:d7a8b3aff5="Recycled Alien"]Well, there's a difference between eggs and gelatin in that extracting one of them kills the animal![/quote:d7a8b3aff5]

    All depends on how you get the eggs out doesn't it?
  29. avatar savagebilliards
    thanks! just wondered. My friend was vegetarian but would eat meat if he was a guest in somone's house and they had made him something not knowing he was veggie. Rather than waste the food and give it back after someone had spent the time preparing it he would eat it.
    Is this a case of non veggie-vegetarianism? Personally looking back I think this is quite a good approach as long as you aint actively calling round peoples houses for 'meat treats' and still claiming to be veggie.
  30. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:cf72bd8d3c]It's as clear cut as I already said: vegetarian means you don't eat mat, if you eat meat you cannot be vegetarian.[/quote:cf72bd8d3c]This is [i:cf72bd8d3c]precisely[/i:cf72bd8d3c] my point, this sentence is not clear cut. Do by-products not also constitute meat? And if they don't, when do by-products stop becoming by-products and become meat? Is an egg meat? Is gelatin meat? Is seaweed meat? Is a starfish meat? Is a sponge meat? Is a jellyfish meat? Is a barnacle meat? Is a shrimp meat? Is a fish meat?
    Who's deciding? You?
  31. avatar The Ronster
    [quote:19daf08717="POSITIVExYOUTH"]the only ones that are left now of the old ones are Phil, Conor, Pete and Hornby (or so I am told).[/quote:19daf08717]

    Ahem...

    Although I stopped being vegetarian, right around the time I sat down and literally decided to have a different 'moral' outlook on the world, rather than come to one over time. I decided I no longer gave a flying fuck about animals, and went out and bought a fish supper.

    I still don't like red meat much, and I've literally never eaten anything where I can see the bones, head or feet. But that's more of a queasiness than anything else.

    So yeah, there's me. And I was probably the only one gung-ho enough to get a sXe tattoo. Hang one, maybe Conor has one too...

    Anyway, I'll never drink, because I never did. Waste of money, waste of time, makes you a boring cunt.

    [i:19daf08717](I'm well aware that people think I'm a boring cunt, but part of my change of mind was to literally stop paying attention to other people)[/i:19daf08717].
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  32. avatar Chi-Lite
    It's all meat, and it's fucking great.

    Except the vegetables.
  33. avatar distracted
    [quote:faeed4fab4="The Ronster"]I decided I no longer gave a flying fuck about animals, and went out and bought a fish supper.[/quote:faeed4fab4]
    <P>
    Brilliant! And why not? I don't particularly care what people eat, and I'd never shove my vegetarian beliefs down anyone's throat (so to speak). I am not particularly fond of the veggies who see people eating meat and tell them all about the badness and so forth...people these days have enough information to make their own decisions I reckon. Each to their own.
  34. avatar tinpot anto
    It's up to yourself isn't it Dee, but fish is kind of a proper animal, I think.

    Molluscs and stuff is certainly a grey area, not much in it between a lobster and a woodlouse.

    But then i don't kill or eat woodlice either.
  35. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:c2f89b935e="Chi-Lite"]
    What judgement is that? Why is it wrong to kill an animal painlessly because it can feel pain, even if it doesn't feel it? I can understand why you would say it's wrong to cause pain, but how does being capable of feeling pain give value to life?
    [/quote:c2f89b935e]

    But it's not even about evaluating if a form of life is more valuable than another, it's the fact that it is unjust to take away life (at least from my point of view) from a living organism that is capable of feeling a range of emotions.
    I don't think a plant is less important than an animal, but I recognise that the consumption of vegetables is necessary for my survival, whereas it is unnecessary for me to eat an animal in order to survive. And this matter of necessity then forms an important part of why I think it is unjust to take away the life from a sentient being.

    [quote:c2f89b935e="Deestroyer"]This is [i:c2f89b935e]precisely[/i:c2f89b935e] my point, this sentence is not clear cut. Do by-products not also constitute meat? And if they don't, when do by-products stop becoming by-products and become meat? Is an egg meat? Is gelatin meat? Is seaweed meat? Is a starfish meat? Is a sponge meat? Is a jellyfish meat? Is a barnacle meat? Is a shrimp meat? Is a fish meat?
    Who's deciding? You?[/quote:c2f89b935e]

    Well, most byproducts are quite clearly not meat and never are. That is unless you start doubting the current definition of the word 'meat'. Gelatin is a completely different ball game.
    And it is not arbitrary the classification of what is meat and what is not. Once again it is down to definition: anything that has flesh is meat, as simple as that. What is arbitrary is what people decide for themselves to class as meat on a purely subjective basis, but there is a specific meaning to the word meat that puts quite clearly what is and what is not meat.

    And sorry Ron, I had no idea you still where sXe. I only rely on the info given me by Cormac as he is old enough to remember in a span that excedes the 10 years. Also think Conor is too sXe to get a sXe tattoo ahahah
    Last edited on , 2 times in total.
  36. avatar Chi-Lite
    What about wee microscopic things that live in your body but?

    Would you eat them?
  37. avatar JTM
    I don't care who he eats so long as I can have a go at the Greeks. They invented gayness.
  38. avatar The Ronster
    [quote:b3875e1557="POSITIVExYOUTH"]I only rely on the info given me by Cormac[/quote:b3875e1557]

    This may be the maddest thing I've ever read on here, and I've read all the Suicide Dolphin Bombers' posts.

    You might as well listen to the voices in your head.
  39. avatar savagebilliards
    grow beard agh grow beard agh grow beard agh
  40. avatar tinpot anto
    SIMPLE DEFINITION FOR THE FUCKING THICK/WILLFULLY OBNOXIOUS:

    DID AN ANIMAL (as in member of the Animal Kingdom) DIE FOR THIS FOOD TO BE PRODUCED?

    Y/N

    Y = Non-vegetarian
    N = Vegetarian

    20 COPY 10
  41. avatar Chi-Lite
    Are the wee things that live inside your body part of the animal kingdom?

    Anyway, vegetarian means you eat vegetables. It's in the name. doesn't say anithing about animals.

    So either it means you only eat vegetables or it means you eat mostly vegetables. Which is it?
  42. avatar ryanego
    If you eat dairy products, you are directly responsible for the killing of cattle.

    For every dairy cow born, there'll be a dairy bull born.

    What use is a dairy bull? It would only take 1 or 2 to keep hundreds of dairy cows happy and churning out waynes. Obviously cows need to have waynes to produce milk.

    The farmer would have to either kill the vast majority of the male dairy calves at birth, or raise them for meat. The only "vegetarian" option would be to raise all the male dairy calves and look after them until they died of natural causes, at massive cost and with zero earnings.

    Maybe male calf abortions are the answer? But then I suppose this would reduce output, as the cows would have to be impregnated twice the number of times.

    So dairy cattle suffering aside, the dairy industry cannot exist without the killing of male cows and if you consume dairy products, you cannot defer this responsibilty just because you aren't actually eating the dead flesh.

    You directly caused it. There is no moral difference between eating beef and consuming cow's milk products.

    I reckon eating less meat to recude the environmental impact, and eating meat that has been well treated and quickly and painlessly killed is no less moral a position that standard vegetarianism.

    I think vegans are the only ones who can rightfully fly the animal suffering flag.
  43. avatar ryanego
    [quote:2d2d8b3c3d="tinpot anto"]SIMPLE DEFINITION FOR THE FUCKING THICK/WILLFULLY OBNOXIOUS:

    DID AN ANIMAL (as in member of the Animal Kingdom) DIE FOR THIS FOOD TO BE PRODUCED?

    Y/N

    Y = Non-vegetarian
    N = Vegetarian

    20 COPY 10[/quote:2d2d8b3c3d]

    By Anto's def, dairy eaters are not vegetarians.
  44. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:fd28bf5313="tinpot anto"]SIMPLE DEFINITION FOR THE FUCKING THICK/WILLFULLY OBNOXIOUS:

    DID AN ANIMAL (as in member of the Animal Kingdom) DIE FOR THIS FOOD TO BE PRODUCED?[/quote:fd28bf5313]

    So say I'm on the way to tescos to buy some carrots for my vegetable pie, and I run over a cat...
  45. avatar remaderyan
    [quote:f342a574bb="tinpot anto"]SIMPLE DEFINITION FOR THE FUCKING THICK/WILLFULLY OBNOXIOUS:

    DID AN ANIMAL (as in member of the Animal Kingdom) DIE FOR THIS FOOD TO BE PRODUCED?

    Y/N

    Y = Non-vegetarian
    N = Vegetarian

    20 COPY 10[/quote:f342a574bb]

    Just to be obnoxious, since this thread has gone to hell already..

    If you eat an egg, isnt that stopping a baby chicken being born? Unborn life and all that jazz
  46. avatar thesacredhearts
    christ. that opens a whole other can of worms.

    and the worms from the original cans mate with the new worms, creating super worms, much like the film tremors. although not the film tremors 2 with the flying worms.
  47. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:0fa6f50897="Chi-Lite"]Anyway, vegetarian means you eat vegetables. It's in the name. doesn't say anithing about animals.[/quote:0fa6f50897]

    Eh, no. The latin word used to coin the word 'vegetarian' by the Vegetarian Society has nothing to do with vegetables.

    [quote:0fa6f50897="remaderyan"]If you eat an egg, isnt that stopping a baby chicken being born? Unborn life and all that jazz[/quote:0fa6f50897]

    Just to keep the obnoxiousness going, the answer is no. And this is because they are unfertilized eggs.

    Bloody hell, it has turned in a proper obnoxiousness festival.
  48. avatar ryanego
    I wasn't intentionally being obnoxious, I was just posing a question that I never get an answer to.

    The point I was trying to make is that everyone fucks animals over to some degree and it's the degree that's important, not the manner in which you fuck them over.

    Excepting vegans of course.
  49. avatar drummer101
    "The only "vegetarian" option would be to raise all the male dairy calves and look after them until they died of natural causes, at massive cost and with zero earnings."

    Or you could raise it, put a saddle on it and ride it to work every day. Plenty of grass about the side of roads for it to feed on and then down to the nearest river for a drink. Big savings on the petrol or diesel.
  50. avatar whosbainejakey
    First World problems, eh?
  51. avatar carriedavenport
    wow i last read this a few hours ago and its all gone a bit mad since then!!

    surely its a matter of personal choice. Honestly I can only speak for myself and not judge/comment on anyone elses reasons but if anyone cares here's why I did it, (if ya don't spoiler alert - this bit will be boring!!)

    I've been veggie for about 5 years now (give or take I honestly don't remember exactly when I switched over!) I chose to do it after going to do a photography job at a meat factory and realising first hand the sheer fear the animals experience, and the cruelty of the mass production of a living creature to feed us when ultimately we don't actually need meat to live.

    And on the whole animal products etc debate then...

    I don't eat fish or chicken (though every other restaurant I go into offers me that when I ask for veggie options) also don't eat things containing gelatine or any animal extract, don't take tablets which have gelatine in them and don't buy anything leather/suede/fur etc...I have one pair of leather boots from yrs back I still wear and feel guilty about but I got them a long time ago so it seems pointless throwing them out now. I only eat free range eggs as they seem like the "kindest" option, don't buy or use any cosmetics/makeup whatever that are tested on animals and basically avoid anything that means an animal has had to die to make my life easier - for me its a matter of the cruelty and the whole mass production thing. I couldn't kill an animal to eat it so why would I pay for somebody else to do it for me. I have had people try to argue with me about this - my favourite of all time was the guy who said eating veal was kind to animals because at least the calf gets to live even if only briefly (this needless to say ended in an argument!!) but ultimately everyone has their own views and you'll never persuade someone who thinks they're right - just like nobody will get me to eat meat again. I'm not a vegan and I know its not perfect but its a case of doing what I think's right!
    I don't see it as trendy - I sometimes find it downright awkward being the only veggie out of my closest friends and family, but I think its worth the hassle, the whole idea of doing something like that to be cool seems really odd to me but then again I never smoked "coz the cool kids did it" either!! that said if someone wants to do it to be cool then ends up properly sticking with it surely that's a win in the end!
  52. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:614a554e74="POSITIVExYOUTH"][quote:614a554e74="Chi-Lite"]Anyway, vegetarian means you eat vegetables. It's in the name. doesn't say anithing about animals.[/quote:614a554e74]

    Eh, no. The latin word used to coin the word 'vegetarian' by the Vegetarian Society has nothing to do with vegetables.

    [/quote:614a554e74]

    Ha. Ya see, I didn't know this, so I decided to check it out. Turns out it's a lot of balls.

    The vegetarian society claims to have invented the word in 1847 based on the latin "vegetus", but the good people at Oxford english have found at least two references that predate that, and refer to cooking with vegetables..

    It seems the vegetarian society has taken a word already in use, noticed that it has etymolgical similarities to another, unrelated word, and decided that that's what it means. Whereas, as it was already in use, it's more likely that it derives entirely from the more common english for"vegetable", also widely in use.

    It's like if I said, look, I've invented a new word - Human - which is a conjunction of the words "huge" and "man", thereby meaning "huge man". But that's not what it means like.
  53. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    "I'm a vegetarian, except for chicken, fish and posh bacon..."


    Actually, one thing that does get on my pecs, as someone who works in a busy restaurant is the amount of vegans who drink red wine, one of whom, when I pointed out the non-vegan qualities of red wine said , 'Yes, but I make an exception for wine'. Not to mention the woman who was vegan all the way up until her dessert. I guess the suffering of dairy animals is worth a soft-centered chocolate cake, but not a risotto...
  54. avatar carriedavenport
    oh my god thats ridiculous! i could claim to be vegan apart from the occasional boiled egg and toast then. surely its worse if you're saying you are then doing that at least us "honest with ourselves folk" admit our failings :)

    just to add...

    its an absolute bitch to find wine that is vegetarian. i'll admit when I turned veggie and until a good bit after I didn't realise this because no wine tells you on the back about it being "fined" with animal additives so why would you even assume there was any animal product in it! for any one wondering about it this place has a pretty good list
    [url=http://www.veggiewines.co.uk/]veggie wines[/url]
    and this place is great for checking about animal testing
    [url=http://www.caringconsumer.com/]www.caringconsumer.com[/url] they even have a be nice to bunnies iphone app so you can search if things are ok when you're out and about - I think if I go as far as to not eat animals then wearing a mascara which has been cruelly tested on them seems ridiculous!
  55. avatar Recycled Alien
    Almost all red wine produced in the past ten years or so is vegetarian, and a substantial minority is vegan. However, producers don't have to mention the clairfication agent on the label, since it doesn't end up in the finished wine, so there's no easy way to tell.
  56. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:2390db3761="Sir Bob Gelding"]"I'm a vegetarian, except for chicken, fish and posh bacon..."


    Actually, one thing that does get on my pecs, as someone who works in a busy restaurant is the amount of vegans who drink red wine, one of whom, when I pointed out the non-vegan qualities of red wine said , 'Yes, but I make an exception for wine'. Not to mention the woman who was vegan all the way up until her dessert. I guess the suffering of dairy animals is worth a soft-centered chocolate cake, but not a risotto...[/quote:2390db3761]

    They're not veggie, they're just picky eaters.
  57. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    [quote:5e927d610e="my-angel-rocks"][quote:5e927d610e="Sir Bob Gelding"]"I'm a vegetarian, except for chicken, fish and posh bacon..."


    Actually, one thing that does get on my pecs, as someone who works in a busy restaurant is the amount of vegans who drink red wine, one of whom, when I pointed out the non-vegan qualities of red wine said , 'Yes, but I make an exception for wine'. Not to mention the woman who was vegan all the way up until her dessert. I guess the suffering of dairy animals is worth a soft-centered chocolate cake, but not a risotto...[/quote:5e927d610e]

    They're not veggie, they're just picky eaters.[/quote:5e927d610e]


    or attention seekers. Middle children the lot of them.
  58. avatar MarkNumskull
    You should all just eat meat like me and stop with the arguing, nothing like a fresh bit of veil, hopefully kept in a small shed and beaten on a daily basis, keeps the meat tender, yum!
  59. avatar Strong Reaction
    Do What You Want - to quote a classic punk song. Or not.

    I tried eating fish for a while for health reasons, then I realised it was stinking. I think a lot of people initially turn vegetarian as a result of the people and scene they are part of, then later some realise it wasn't for them. I'm certainly not going to judge somebody on their diet or what recreational legal/illegal drugs they consume. Unless they try to kill me or eat my parents or something. It's hardly a major issue in the grand scheme of things, though I do find the labelling slightly inane.

    Kill me.
  60. avatar Warren Drugs
    [quote:f0c39d647e="MarkNumskull"]nothing like a fresh bit of veil[/quote:f0c39d647e]

    I too enjoy the taste of burka.
  61. avatar Strong Reaction
    A tasty snood.
  62. avatar MarkNumskull
    Hahaha, i am one of the great spellers, im a fantastic example of the education system!
  63. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:5c9b79b5f9="daveshorty"]the long and short of it is... all vegans are right and everyone else is wrong.[/quote:5c9b79b5f9]

    Well yes.

    But...I'm vegan, have been for over ten years now but am no where near as militant as I once was. If an item says made in a factory handling eggs, milk, whatever it wont bother me so long as it isnt in what I'm paying for and eating. Likewise, I do try to make sure anywhere I eat out is vegan friendly but I'm sure there's the occasional slip up and crosss contamination of utensils, etc.

    As for alcohol I rarely drink and if I do it's literally a sip of wine or half bottle of bear...I make sure it's all vegan first!

    Out of all the old vegans and veggies I'm pretty sure myself and Andrew are the only ones left...is mac vegan? I think he's definately veggie.
  64. avatar Andrew
    [quote:3ede072b7d="spirit of division"]Out of all the old vegans and veggies I'm pretty sure myself and Andrew are the only ones left...is mac vegan? I think he's definately veggie.[/quote:3ede072b7d]

    You can add Mully and Adeline to that list.

    I have never had a problem with people who eat meat, or people who don't, or people who only eat weevil shit, or people who drink, or people who do PCP, or people who only sip Irn Bru from a boot, or whatever. I have only ever had a problem with people who lecture me on their chosen lifestyle, when you know in five years they're going to be doing the exact opposite of whatever it is they're preaching.

    It also irks me when people complain that it's 'hard' being veggie. It's actually very easy, and it's just as easy getting fat off it, too, as my rotund form proves.
  65. avatar mandy
    My first post!
    There is no room for debate or discussion on this topic............You either are a vegetarian or you are not. Theres no grey area, no in between, no part time vegetarian. Its the equivalent of saying you are allergic to peanuts but eat a bucket of monkey nuts every halloween. Its like saying you are a pioneer but have the odd glass of buckfizz and thinking its ok cos theres minute amounts of alcohol in it. Its like saying a non smoker has a packet of cigars every weekend and thinking its ok cos its not cigarettes. SEE how ridiculous it sounds when you put it into perspective.
    Some of you have obviously forgotten the meaning of the word vegetarian......just as well i have a dictionary on standy by. so to clear this up:
    vegetarian "person who eats NO meat or fish" (collins dictionary 2006)
    Rant over, hopefully discussion closed!
  66. avatar feline1
    well as an avowed fruitner I am always glad to see straight-edge being eased out in favour of gay-mo.
  67. avatar tinpot anto
    [quote:565f3f914f]Vegan bear[/quote:565f3f914f]

    not even the worst sort of meat bastard would eat a VEGAN BEAR!!! You MONSTER
  68. avatar Telebruises
    Id just love to know how a vegetarian could possibly turn this down...

    [img:994e3a697b]http://www.jenius.com.au/images/dooleys-lidcombe_steak.jpg[/img:994e3a697b]

    I mean, come on...
  69. avatar theotheo
    that wooden medium sign sure looks blissful
  70. avatar Recycled Alien
    [quote:42f6675640="Telebruises"]Id just love to know how a vegetarian could possibly turn this down...[/quote:42f6675640]Grow up. Get a life. Have sex. You'll get over it.
  71. avatar Telebruises
    [quote:b18e226669="Recycled Alien"][quote:b18e226669="Telebruises"]Id just love to know how a vegetarian could possibly turn this down...[/quote:b18e226669]Grow up. Get a life. Have sex. You'll get over it.[/quote:b18e226669]

    Calm down there lad.
    Not everything needs to be serious in the world. :023:
  72. avatar feline1
    [quote:61628fc566="Telebruises"]Id just love to know how a vegetarian could possibly turn this down...

    [img:61628fc566]http://www.jenius.com.au/images/dooleys-lidcombe_steak.jpg[/img:61628fc566]

    I mean, come on...[/quote:61628fc566]


    that looks f(kin genkin'
  73. avatar Deestroyer
    The super worms did make an appearance after all.
    I have a lot of respect for vegetarians and vegans, choosing to alter your entire diet to protect the welfare of animals is commendable and good on the lot of you.
    All I was trying to suggest was that it seems like shaky ground for a non vegan vegetarian to have a go at pescetarians. One makes allowances for fish, the other for by-products.
    Both are still contributing at least. Unlike me, I eat that shit up.
  74. avatar tinpot anto
    I agree completely with that - every little helps, it's simply the smugness of it that rankles.

    It's like when that witch-whore Dr Gillian McKeith calls herself "Doctor" when she has a doctorate in social sciences not an MD.

    It's a good achievement in itself but if you're trying to suggest its something else then you're an eejit.
  75. avatar tenrabbits
    [quote:c0cc74e247="tinpot anto"]I agree completely with that - every little helps, it's simply the smugness of it that rankles.

    It's like when that witch-whore Dr Gillian McKeith calls herself "Doctor" when she has a doctorate in social sciences not an MD.

    It's a good achievement in itself but if you're trying to suggest its something else then you're an eejit.[/quote:c0cc74e247]

    It's not even that good an achievement, Ben Goldacre (the dude that writes the brilliant Bad Science column in the Guardian) managed to get the same doctorate. For his dead cat. I shit you not.
  76. avatar Deestroyer
    She really loves saying the word "pooooooooooo!", ugly oul hateful weirdo. Stop looking at people's poo, saying the word "poo" and showing me other people's poo you weirdo!
    So hang on, she is voluntarily looking at peoples shit and has no background in medicine and isn't a dietitian? Is she a shit-ophile?
    Stop looking at poo, you crazy bitch!
  77. avatar thesacredhearts
    people deal too much in absolutes and wee pigeonholes*. i may not be vegetarian but try to eat that way a couple of days a week. i have no moral objections to eating meat or indeed killing animals for food, but the ecological and health concerns to eating meat are valid, hence why i try my best to refrain from meat occasionally. who really cares what moral high ground you have by putting yourself into a wee box? i see it the same as any belief system, you have yours, i have mine, be it religious, about climate change (see your odd wee man from the employment tribunal during the week?) etc







    * pigeon hole is not some sort of meat im eating
  78. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    [quote:465dc6064b="feline1"][quote:465dc6064b="Telebruises"]Id just love to know how a vegetarian could possibly turn this down...

    [img:465dc6064b]http://www.jenius.com.au/images/dooleys-lidcombe_steak.jpg[/img:465dc6064b]

    I mean, come on...[/quote:465dc6064b]


    that looks f(kin genkin'[/quote:465dc6064b]

    Seconded. And I love steak more than I love life. Could you not have posted one of those lovely M&S steaks, possibly with some fleetwood mac playing in the background?
  79. avatar BinaryOperator
    If you want to be a veggie as you do not like meat, fine.

    If you think animals do not suffer for your vegan lasagne, think again.

    plowing, weeding, preparing fields all kills animals. Lots and lots. Fieldmice, voles, furry crawlies etc etc. That loaf you buy, well the ground it came from was plowed. "Vermin" were killed for your carrots, spuds and purple fucking sprouting fuckin broccoli...

    What you are essentially doing is saying I am not killing a cow for a steak, but I am happy to kill some fieldmice for my granary loaf....or some voles for my nice cos lettuce. You are making a value judgement based on the TYPE of animal. You're basically saying "I love cuddly cows, no steak for me - but fuck them fieldmice I am having some toast"....

    Unless the veg are all farmed by hand all fecking food has blood on it.

    I read an essay once that compared deaths of animals (not counting insects) for producing various foods. Milk is very animal friendly provided the cows eat grass.

    So if you want to kill less animals, buy a fecking cow and live on the dairy from that - then kill it and live off the carcass for a while. That way you kill LESS animals.

    Don't get up in your ivory tower and say you are not killing animals for your food. Don't make me feckin laugh.

    Oh and those unbleached hemp trousers eh? how many field animals were killed to ensure the success of that crop eh?

    Apologies for being overly bitter, a bad week GRRRRRRRR
  80. avatar Deestroyer
    Wow, did not see that coming.
  81. avatar daveshorty
    The point of veganism is to do all you practically can to reduce harm inflicted on animals. For example, with my band etc sometimes I need to drive - I know that there are likely animal products used in the manufacture of tyres, but I still drive. It'd hardly be possible to be perfectly vegan in the strictest sense of the word.

    Anyway, in ideal vegan imaginary-land, animal farming stops and that reduces plant farming enormously (for feeding cattle etc - one major ecological reason for abstaining from meat).
  82. avatar tinpot anto
    I wonder how much of your bad week was caused by your apparent failure to understand the basic principles of logic, discourse and the English Language. :-D lol

    oh noes teh voles!
  83. avatar Strong Reaction
    Fuck the voles.
  84. avatar goatboy
    Eat the voles.
  85. avatar ryanego
    Seriously though, honest question to the vegetarians, how do you get around the fact that dairy farming just cannot happen without killing the males? Likewise eggs and male chickens. Do you just ignore it?

    I respect anyone's right to put what they want into their own body, but is the above fact not seriously at odds with the not killing animals for food point? It's not like it's just a minor unfortunate by product, it's one killed for every dairy cow (which will probably be eaten itself after its artificially short life, but that's neither here nor there).

    Is there a way round it?

    If not, isn't moral vegetarianism essentially pointless?
  86. avatar thesacredhearts
    Free the Paedos!
  87. avatar fastfude
    <object width="446" height="326"><param name="movie" value="http://video.ted.com/assets/player/swf/EmbedPlayer.swf"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="bgColor" value="#ffffff"></param> <param name="flashvars" value="vu=http://video.ted.com/talks/dynamic/MarkBittman_2007P-medium.flv&su=http://images.ted.com/images/ted/tedindex/embed-posters/MarkBittman-2007P.embed_thumbnail.jpg&vw=432&vh=240&ap=0&ti=263&introDuration=16500&adDuration=4000&postAdDuration=2000&adKeys=talk=mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat;year=2007;theme=bold_predictions_stern_warnings;theme=a_greener_future;event=EG+2007;&preAdTag=tconf.ted/embed;tile=1;sz=512x288;" /><embed src="http://video.ted.com/assets/player/swf/EmbedPlayer.swf" pluginspace="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" bgColor="#ffffff" width="446" height="326" allowFullScreen="true" flashvars="vu=http://video.ted.com/talks/dynamic/MarkBittman_2007P-medium.flv&su=http://images.ted.com/images/ted/tedindex/embed-posters/MarkBittman-2007P.embed_thumbnail.jpg&vw=432&vh=240&ap=0&ti=263&introDuration=16500&adDuration=4000&postAdDuration=2000&adKeys=talk=mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat;year=2007;theme=bold_predictions_stern_warnings;theme=a_greener_future;event=EG+2007;"></embed></object>
  88. avatar niallgraham
    lol @ "Free the Peados"

    I eat meat and I know all those fluffy animals died so that i can have the luxury of a nice big steak, but you know what? I really don't care.

    I'm sick of all the same old w@nky "moral" arguments.

    "I don't eat meat because I don't eat anything that was living"

    Balls. A potato was as alive as you or I.

    "Yeah, but a cow had a central nervous system! It walked around and ate and breathed"

    Who cares? A cow does not even know it's a fvcking cow. It's not self aware. It's a grass eating, shitting, reproducing, weather predicting machine.

    "Meat is a luxury! You don't need to cause pain to eat. You can eat veggies and cause no creature any harm."

    Balls. You know how many fluffy bunnies, foxes, badgers, insects, birds etc were killed with peticides and combine harvesters to harvest the corn for your cornflakes? You think they shout "all fluffy animals vacate this field! A big scary machine is about to come and pwn the lot of you!" You know how many acres and acres of forest are cut down to feed us? We don't care because we're human beings, and we only care about ourselves.

    If you really gave that much of a fvck, you'd grow all your own food in your back yard.

    If you don't eat meat because you don't like the taste or you're "straight edge" or whatever, fair enough. Just be prepared to take a massive slegging from me.

    (Edited once for numerous typos)
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  89. avatar DontPetABurningDog
    "t's one killed for every dairy cow (which will probably be eaten itself after its artificially short life, but that's neither here nor there)."

    It's also not true. It's highly unlikely it'll be eaten, as beef from animals over 30 months old is kept out of human consumption.
  90. avatar daveshorty
    a lot of dairy cows that the industry are finished with go into fast food meat in the US. not sure about here.
  91. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:2ffdfbe81a="fastfude"]<object width="446" height="326"><param name="movie" value="http://video.ted.com/assets/player/swf/EmbedPlayer.swf"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="bgColor" value="#ffffff"></param> <param name="flashvars" value="vu=http://video.ted.com/talks/dynamic/MarkBittman_2007P-medium.flv&su=http://images.ted.com/images/ted/tedindex/embed-posters/MarkBittman-2007P.embed_thumbnail.jpg&vw=432&vh=240&ap=0&ti=263&introDuration=16500&adDuration=4000&postAdDuration=2000&adKeys=talk=mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat;year=2007;theme=bold_predictions_stern_warnings;theme=a_greener_future;event=EG+2007;&preAdTag=tconf.ted/embed;tile=1;sz=512x288;" /><embed src="http://video.ted.com/assets/player/swf/EmbedPlayer.swf" pluginspace="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" bgColor="#ffffff" width="446" height="326" allowFullScreen="true" flashvars="vu=http://video.ted.com/talks/dynamic/MarkBittman_2007P-medium.flv&su=http://images.ted.com/images/ted/tedindex/embed-posters/MarkBittman-2007P.embed_thumbnail.jpg&vw=432&vh=240&ap=0&ti=263&introDuration=16500&adDuration=4000&postAdDuration=2000&adKeys=talk=mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat;year=2007;theme=bold_predictions_stern_warnings;theme=a_greener_future;event=EG+2007;"></embed></object>[/quote:2ffdfbe81a]

    Weirdly, this video is perfectly soundtracked by "The Campfire Headphase" by Boards of Canada.

    It was seven miutes before I realised the album was playing in the background. It's like "Little Fluffy Clouds" by the Orb, only with some kind of confusing enviromental message.


    I hate fish, if that helps further the debate.

    They're pure boke.

    I once was forced to eat sardines in Portugal, and you had to take the head off and remove the skeleton.

    I'm quite fond of hamburgers.
  92. avatar Recycled Alien
    It's pretty conspicuous from this thread that it's the non-vegetarians who are "strident". All the longer posts from them are just passive-agressive self-justification. You don't have to be a psychiatrist (which I'm not) to spot the huge amount of denial, guilt and inferiority complex. (And lots of faulty logic.)

    I'm not a vegetarian, by the way. It's just that not eating meat is a certified, proven and very easy way to substantially reduce my destructive environmental impact. Which I like.
  93. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:541e0fd50a="Recycled Alien"] It's just that not eating meat is a certified, proven and very easy way to substantially reduce my destructive environmental impact. Which I like.[/quote:541e0fd50a]

    I don't know about that...I mean, have you even watched that video?

    In it, yer man says that this:

    [img:541e0fd50a]http://paddyk.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/expensive-cow.jpg[/img:541e0fd50a]

    Is the equivalent of this:

    [img:541e0fd50a]http://www.prwatch.org/files/images/AtomicBlast.jpg[/img:541e0fd50a]

    So, I think that those bovine bastards are destroying the earth.
  94. avatar Recycled Alien
    Oh, come off it! The cows are just the dupes of the reptilian overlords!
  95. avatar Strong Reaction
    Everyone should just drink rain-water and scrabble around in the muck.
  96. avatar Persistence
    Reading this topic then being "treated" to a bacon sandwich for tea = boke times...

    I'm going vegetarian again, I can't stand meat anyway :087:
  97. avatar spirit of division
    From animal aid...

    Animal farming uses much more land, energy and water and has a far bigger effect on climate change than plant-based agriculture:

    A vegan diet requires half the amount of land used to produce a typical vegetarian diet and one fifth of that used for a typical European omnivorous diet.
    In terms of an individual's carbon footprint, switching to a vegan diet would have a greater impact than switching from a traditional to an eco-friendly car.
    It takes only 1,000 litres of water to grow one kilo of wheat, yet 11,000 litres to produce just one quarter-pound beef burger, and between 2,000 and 4,000 litres for a cow to produce one litre of milk.


    It's all about hurting the enviroment and those animals that live within it as little as possible.
  98. avatar samthebastard
    My first post!
    You may not know me, but i'm Sam, and i'm a bastard. I hate people using bad science to back up their argument, especially when they are wrong. Most of you hippy, i'm going to save the world by not eating meat, and wearing hemp trousers, and pretending I give a shit people, are wrong. I could go through many examples of why this is. I'll go for the latest. Spirit of division, your user name suggests a possible enjoyment or GCSE maths, but I feel you didn't make it to many science lessons. You may have missed out the whole water cycle bit. Do you know that water can be reused? Infact, the Sun helps us in this cycle rather efficiently for us! All hail the Sun!


    [quote:ff51bf6ddc="spirit of division"]From animal aid...

    It takes only 1,000 litres of water to grow one kilo of wheat, yet 11,000 litres to produce just one quarter-pound beef burger, and between 2,000 and 4,000 litres for a cow to produce one litre of milk.


    It's all about hurting the enviroment and those animals that live within it as little as possible.[/quote:ff51bf6ddc]

    Did you know by letting it rain in Ireland, we are wasting 84,421,000,000 Litres of water a year! Stop this madness. Lobby the EU and tell them we don't want this water being wasted.

    According to your flawed logic, we destroy 10+ litres every time we take a shit. For must of you vegetarians you waste more. Due to the constant stream of shit coming out of your mouths. "I dont want to harm the environment, I want to save te animals...." Some people are on a mission to make themselves feel better, ironically by doing stuff that makes there lives harder, so they can feel self righteous about it. Hard luck boys and girls, you were born in a country that doesn't have extreme poverty. Society works now works on the principals of intensive farming, coal and oil fired power, combustion engines. You never see wee Jimmy african saying, i'm so glad i'm not affecting the environment by using intensive farming techniques. If he could feed his family he would be happy. Grass is always greener on the other side isn't it.

    Your happy enough to sit at your laptop, on your wi-fi, using electricity, in your oil fired central heated house, in your cotton clothes, and moan about how people like me are killing the earth. I admit it. I am. But at least I don't try and bullshit myself into thinking i'm not. If you don't like it, move to Africa, or another third world country. Live as they do. You'll lower your carbon footprint, and save a few animals, but you'll soon come back.
  99. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    [quote:8a75d9bd88="Steven Dedalus"]

    I'm quite fond of hamburgers.[/quote:8a75d9bd88]


    And other people's risotto, as far as I'm aware.
  100. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:6dccb04c46="samthebastard"]You may not know me, but i'm Sam, and i'm a bastard. I hate people using bad science to back up their argument, especially when they are wrong. Most of you hippy, i'm going to save the world by not eating meat, and wearing hemp trousers, and pretending I give a shit people, are wrong. I could go through many examples of why this is. I'll go for the latest. Spirit of division, your user name suggests a possible enjoyment or GCSE maths, but I feel you didn't make it to many science lessons. You may have missed out the whole water cycle bit. Do you know that water can be reused? Infact, the Sun helps us in this cycle rather efficiently for us! All hail the Sun!


    [quote:6dccb04c46="spirit of division"]From animal aid...

    It takes only 1,000 litres of water to grow one kilo of wheat, yet 11,000 litres to produce just one quarter-pound beef burger, and between 2,000 and 4,000 litres for a cow to produce one litre of milk.


    It's all about hurting the enviroment and those animals that live within it as little as possible.[/quote:6dccb04c46]

    Did you know by letting it rain in Ireland, we are wasting 84,421,000,000 Litres of water a year! Stop this madness. Lobby the EU and tell them we don't want this water being wasted.

    According to your flawed logic, we destroy 10+ litres every time we take a shit. For must of you vegetarians you waste more. Due to the constant stream of shit coming out of your mouths. "I dont want to harm the environment, I want to save te animals...." Some people are on a mission to make themselves feel better, ironically by doing stuff that makes there lives harder, so they can feel self righteous about it. Hard luck boys and girls, you were born in a country that doesn't have extreme poverty. Society works now works on the principals of intensive farming, coal and oil fired power, combustion engines. You never see wee Jimmy african saying, i'm so glad i'm not affecting the environment by using intensive farming techniques. If he could feed his family he would be happy. Grass is always greener on the other side isn't it.

    Your happy enough to sit at your laptop, on your wi-fi, using electricity, in your oil fired central heated house, in your cotton clothes, and moan about how people like me are killing the earth. I admit it. I am. But at least I don't try and bullshit myself into thinking i'm not. If you don't like it, move to Africa, or another third world country. Live as they do. You'll lower your carbon footprint, and save a few animals, but you'll soon come back.[/quote:6dccb04c46]




    Hey Sam, you dont know me and I guess I dont want to know you. I'm not some hemp wearing hippy but you clearly are a twit. Please dont assume anything about anybody here. Now...I could give you my layman's point of view and not really get at the crux of the issue, but, basically farming in ANY capacity is bad for the enviroment, mass farming of meat is much more terrible than farming for grains and vegetables. You obviously havent been doing much since you left school / maybe since first year geography, as it is now documented that the water cycle is in fact not an entirely closed system due to human influence, i.e; it is not inexhaustible as was once thought. We put a lot of water out of use due to pollution, storage for other uses (farming), etc.

    Have a read [url=http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=40479]here[/url] - it's just an interview but I've read some of her stuff and it's pretty interesting.

    If you dont agree then fair enough.
  101. avatar The Grace Jones
    [quote:21f020713e="Recycled Alien"]
    I'm not a vegetarian, by the way. It's just that not eating meat is a certified, proven and very easy way to substantially reduce my destructive environmental impact. Which I like.[/quote:21f020713e]

    This is the only anti-carnivore argument that seems to completely add up to me. It's pretty commendable. I'd find it very hard (and very unpleasant) to completely eliminate meat from my diet but I reckon that certainly in the Western world most people who do eat meat probably eat a lot more than they either need to or should.
  102. avatar savagebilliards
    fair play to ya pete just dont ever come near me with that carob shite. I think my taste buds are scarred for life! :078:
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  103. avatar daveshorty
    oh my, carob fuckin stinks! whoever thought that would be a good idea needs help.
    organica vegan milk chocolate on the other hand is insanely amazing!
  104. avatar niallgraham
    [quote:a5ae280fcc="spirit of division"]From animal aid...
    It's all about hurting the enviroment and those animals that live within it as little as possible.[/quote:a5ae280fcc]

    (The pronoun "you" referrs to vegetarians/vegans and not "you" personally, spirit of division)

    Being a vegan or vegitarian does NOT hurt the environment and the animals that live within it as little as possible. The point is that you still kill the planet with everything you do. Get on a bus, buy vegetables in plastic packaging etc etc. If you actually cared, you would grow your own vegetables in your own back yard, where you're causing no harm to the environment. But you don't...you're willing to go one step, but you're not willing to actually inconvenience yourself. Why? Because you, like me, do not give a flying fvck about the environment. I just admit it to myself and to others. It's like people who put a pound in a charity box. They don't actually give a shit...if they did, they'd dedicate their time, energy, and a significant portion of their income to the charity, as some people do.
  105. avatar daveshorty
    [quote:ee5782f9cb="niallgraham"][quote:ee5782f9cb="spirit of division"]From animal aid...
    It's all about hurting the enviroment and those animals that live within it as little as possible.[/quote:ee5782f9cb]

    (The pronoun "you" referrs to vegetarians/vegans and not "you" personally, spirit of division)

    Being a vegan or vegitarian does NOT hurt the environment and the animals that live within it as little as possible. The point is that you still kill the planet with everything you do. Get on a bus, buy vegetables in plastic packaging etc etc. If you actually cared, you would grow your own vegetables in your own back yard, where you're causing no harm to the environment. But you don't...you're willing to go one step, but you're not willing to actually inconvenience yourself. Why? Because you, like me, do not give a flying fvck about the environment. I just admit it to myself and to others. It's like people who put a pound in a charity box. They don't actually give a shit...if they did, they'd dedicate their time, energy, and a significant portion of their income to the charity, as some people do.[/quote:ee5782f9cb]

    that's insane. that's the old argument that doing a little bit is as bad as doing nothing because you can't completely overturn the system. what's so wrong with doing SOMETHING? might as well like.
  106. avatar The Grace Jones
    It's pretty reasonable to make efforts to lessen your impact wherever possible y'know. Just because you don't devote your entire existence to something doesn't equate to "not giving a shit". The "I can't do EVERYTHING so I will do NOTHING" attitude is not a helpful one.
  107. avatar daveshorty
    haha i think we made the exact same point there
  108. avatar savagebilliards
    yeah but doing something is better than doing nothing? just like charity (and tescos) every little helps...no?

    I would assume most vegetarians/vegans have some sort of moral beliefs about protecting the environment and not hurting animals, but you can be sure that its not all self denial just for the animals - people do things that make them feel better about themselves. There is nothing wrong with that. I would say vegans are happy being vegan and get happiness out of it. Maybe I'm wrong?
  109. avatar daveshorty
    that's another old debate of human nature innit. do people do good things for selfish reasons (to feel good/to not feel guilty)? but then, why would they feel guilty unless they had the desire to be good hardwired into them... etc etc.
  110. avatar savagebilliards
    its getting deep now dave! as long as there are no paedos around eat what ya want!:lol:
  111. avatar daveshorty
    hahahaha
    keep an eye on simsie
  112. avatar savagebilliards
    significantly less paedo-looking now! (sorry);)
  113. avatar daveshorty
    u can't polish a big beardy rapey lovely man
  114. avatar Jim Cava
    I think that the problem is that people eat too much meat. I eat meat once or twice a week, fish slightly more often- I dont see a problem eating beef or mutton/lamb from the glens of Antrim for example- the land is pretty useless for crop farming and I assume that those animals have a reasonably good quality of life until the abbatoir- These animals would not have experienced any life at all were it not for the meat industry. I do believe that farming should be as humane as possible (even though it will drive up the price of meat- thats ok too. I think that most meat is very cheap considering what goes in to produce it), and have always been surprised that fox hunting for example is banned yet battery hens are fine.
    Another overlooked point is that it would be pretty difficult to pursue organic farming, etc without the meat trade- all that dung has to come from somewhere. I think a better balance is whats needed.
    Things tend to be a bit more complicated than we would like to believe- It can be difficult to weigh up the carbon cost of a lamb chop from Antrim compared to blueberries from Argentina and whilst it may seem better to eat beans from France rather than Ghana ,for example,the carbon cost may be smaller with the Ghanian beans due to a more traditional method of farming compared to the French use of fertilisers,etc
  115. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:b17018f0ff="daveshorty"][quote:b17018f0ff="niallgraham"][quote:b17018f0ff="spirit of division"]From animal aid...
    It's all about hurting the enviroment and those animals that live within it as little as possible.[/quote:b17018f0ff]

    (The pronoun "you" referrs to vegetarians/vegans and not "you" personally, spirit of division)

    Being a vegan or vegitarian does NOT hurt the environment and the animals that live within it as little as possible. The point is that you still kill the planet with everything you do. Get on a bus, buy vegetables in plastic packaging etc etc. If you actually cared, you would grow your own vegetables in your own back yard, where you're causing no harm to the environment. But you don't...you're willing to go one step, but you're not willing to actually inconvenience yourself. Why? Because you, like me, do not give a flying fvck about the environment. I just admit it to myself and to others. It's like people who put a pound in a charity box. They don't actually give a shit...if they did, they'd dedicate their time, energy, and a significant portion of their income to the charity, as some people do.[/quote:b17018f0ff]

    that's insane. that's the old argument that doing a little bit is as bad as doing nothing because you can't completely overturn the system. what's so wrong with doing SOMETHING? might as well like.[/quote:b17018f0ff]

    Dave is the coolest man in this thread. Recycled Alien comes close second and Savage is cool in general.
  116. avatar daveshorty
    hahaha i knew my mum was right, i AM cool!
  117. avatar ryanego
    I think that moral vegetarianism is largely pointless because Its impossible to have commercial milk or eggs without killing large amounts of cattle and chickens and that is indisputable.

    It's like Anto said before [quote:94f30973bd] I think if you eat meat, but do not have the stomach to kill an animal you are basically the worst type of hypocrite.[/quote:94f30973bd]

    Would you happily kill the unecessary male chicks, or the male calves? Would you look after them? Seriously, how do you get around this?

    If you're concerned about the environment or animal welfare, but won't go vegan, and don't think just reducing and thinking about your meat and dairy intake is enough, I think eating fish from sustainable managed fisheries will cause less environmental harm and less animal suffering than dairy.

    A captured wild fish has led an otherwise normal life and no environmental degradation is incurred in it's production. Catching it requires relatively little energy for the value of the return. If this is done carefully, environmental harm can be minimal. Much less than dairy cattle farming relatively.

    I'm sure fish feel pain in some rudimentary way, but they're a fair few steps down the ladder from cows and dairy cows undoubtedly suffer a lot.

    [quote:94f30973bd]Professor John Webster, Department of Animal Husbandry, Bristol University says:

    "The dairy cow is a supreme example of an overworked mother. [i:94f30973bd]She is the hardest working of all our farm animals and it can be scientifically calculated[/i:94f30973bd]. It is equivalent to a jogger who goes out for six to eight hours a day which is a lunatic pursuit”. He states that almost 100 per cent of cows suffer from laminitis - a disease which causes 'great pain to the cow' (MAFF). Tissue lining of the foot becomes inflamed and may lead to ulcers. Professor Webster continues: "To understand the pain of laminitis it helps to imagine crushing your finger nails in the door then standing on your fingertips." [/quote:94f30973bd]

    It might make more sense in environmental and suffering terms to give up dairy rather than fish, provided you source sustainably netted, or line caught fish. But then you wouldn't be a proper vegetarian. Which is why I think vegetarian is a pointless term.
  118. avatar niallgraham
    Fair enough. Doing something is better than doing nothing. I'll do something for the environment/the good of animals if it's not an inconvenience to me. All I'm saying is I don't like being preached to by high-and-mighty vegitarians/vegans or environmentalists about how what I do is so selfish. (not saying any of you are doing that, like) But as soon as an issue comes into conflict with my personal priorities, which are myself, my family and my friends, then my own interests come first. That's pretty much the same for most people. In my personal world, my love of steak, of flying on aeroplanes, of using fossil fuels, of pointlessly posting on forums etc etc is more important than the welfare of this planet.
  119. avatar daveshorty
    to be honest tho, in my experience sometimes even just mentioning the fact that i eat vegan is enough for someone to think i'm "preaching" at them. eat whatever the fuck u want!
  120. avatar tinpot anto
    True bill noone on this thread is preaching at carnivores, mostly veggies vs vegans and so forth.

    Ryan man. I said I was a vegetarian, which I am by any concievable definition, and have been for over 20 years. I didn't say I was the next fuvking messiah of animal welfare!!!!!


    I'm well aware of the suffering of dairy animals. I'm just aware that a vegan diet is well beyond my capacity for will power and the hectic lifestyle I have.

    Simple as that.
  121. avatar Shane
    I'm a humanitarian - I only eat humans.
  122. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:cbb1d03ff1="daveshorty"]to be honest tho, in my experience sometimes even just mentioning the fact that i eat vegan is enough for someone to think i'm "preaching" at them. eat whatever the fuck u want![/quote:cbb1d03ff1]

    I get that a lot too. It also often leads to the same old "you need a steak" line...oh how I laugh each time.
  123. avatar ryanego
    Yea that's cool Anto, I don't mean to be aggressive. I've been on the end of a lot of vegetarian preaching and it motivated me to think about it a bit, but I suppose I'm probably sounding a bit preachy myself, so I'll stop.
  124. avatar tinpot anto
    I'm a Buddhist see. To be born into this life is to be born into the suffering of the guilty. No one is free of guilt or can ever be. Life is suffering. :-)

    now who's preaching? :-)
  125. avatar Recycled Alien
    [quote:cfdbe3404a="tinpot anto"]To be born into this life is to be born into the suffering of the guilty.[/quote:cfdbe3404a]That's not Buddhist. That's Catholic. Original sin? Yeah, right. ;)
  126. avatar The Grace Jones
    [quote:a43290a49a="tinpot anto"]Ryan man. I said I was a vegetarian, which I am by any concievable definition[/quote:a43290a49a]

    Except your own, above. There are a lot of reasonable, sensible, logical approaches to this, and yours doesn't add up. You defined it above as involving killing animals - you can't dig a bloody lettuce out of the ground, or indeed legally grow one for sale, without killing a bunch of aphids.

    Hypothetically, if you had a child, and the child was starving, would you kill a chicken to feed it if the chicken was the only thing that there was to feed it? I mean, I'd like to fucking hope you would. The environmental argument is the only one that will successfully hold water. It is reasonable. If we all turn vegan tomorrow, the cows and pigs will have to be slaughtered en masse. If that was necessary to save the planet, honestly, I could live with it. I think the future of the environment as we know it is a bloody good reason for taking action, but to argue this on the basis of being a Western Buddhist that only kills a few thousand animals a day - really? You're a fucking scientist. Buddhism is hokey. I mean, it is. It's a whole lot less hokey than most belief systems but fuck, you're a fucking scientist. It's 2009 for fucks sake.
  127. avatar Shane
    [quote:9050770835="The Grace Jones"][quote:9050770835="tinpot anto"]Ryan man. I said I was a vegetarian, which I am by any concievable definition[/quote:9050770835]

    Except your own, above. There are a lot of reasonable, sensible, logical approaches to this, and yours doesn't add up. You defined it above as involving killing animals - you can't dig a bloody lettuce out of the ground, or indeed legally grow one for sale, without killing a bunch of aphids.

    Hypothetically, if you had a child, and the child was starving, would you kill a chicken to feed it if the chicken was the only thing that there was to feed it? I mean, I'd like to fucking hope you would. The environmental argument is the only one that will successfully hold water. It is reasonable. If we all turn vegan tomorrow, the cows and pigs will have to be slaughtered en masse. If that was necessary to save the planet, honestly, I could live with it. I think the future of the environment as we know it is a bloody good reason for taking action, but to argue this on the basis of being a Western Buddhist that only kills a few thousand animals a day - really? You're a fucking scientist. Buddhism is hokey. I mean, it is. It's a whole lot less hokey than most belief systems but fuck, you're a fucking scientist. It's 2009 for fucks sake.[/quote:9050770835]

    O
  128. avatar tinpot anto
    Ha ha oh Jesus.

    Ok so we've established that it's impossible to eat anything without killing something.

    So if we didn't want to kill any creatures, we wouldn't becable to eat. Funny that's exactly what is meant by the reference to buddhism above, and yeah steve you'd be amazed at the deep parallels betwen, partcularly Tibetan Buddhism and Catholicism. Pretty much the pantheon overlaps with the saints very closely too. Interesting stuff. Difference in the guilt thing being buddhists say don't worry about it man.

    Not wanting to go on about it TGJ but it's precisely the fact that Buddhism is at heart a scientific series of practical things which make you feel better. It's atheistic and humanist too. Most of it is "meditating makes you more relaxed and happy, plus this also means you're less likely to cause harm etc" or "hating people is hard work"

    The associated mythology is entirely optional or a good psychological tool in the Jungian sense.

    Anyway back to meat. So if we can't not kill by eating anything does this mean we should kill as much as possible without regard?

    No. I chose to minimise my impact by not eating animals. It's a comfotable enough and well established distinction that really doesn't require a lot of effort, particularly when you have 20 yrs practice.

    No rule in Buddhism about eating meat anyway. Buddha died from eating a piece of rotten pork. :-)

    also if I was hungry enough myself, properly starving like, I'd eat meat never mind for my kids becuase it would be necessary, it's just not necessary to me it's wasteful and callous to eat meat with such indifference to the suffering and death of animals. I'm not indifferent to the suffering of dairy animals or teh voles or aphids but to save them all is beyond me so I drew a nice neat line in the sand and caused less harm than otherwise
  129. avatar The Ronster
    What if you don't care about the environment?

    Can't say it keeps me awake at night.
  130. avatar The Grace Jones
    Anto, put like that it sounds very reasonable and sensible and I'm sorry for being a cheeky bollocks. I'd had a glass or two. Sorry :)
  131. avatar tinpot anto
    Ha ha no bother isn't that why we allkeep coming here? Yeeooooo!
  132. avatar loveisthelaw
    Being veggie was hip 20 years ago, when I was one just like Christianity.

    For any veggies and vegans on here, I have one question, why?

    Why deprive yourself of valuable protein? Veggie/ vegan food is tastless. By refusing to eat meet, you're depriving a poor farmer of their livelyhood and eventually animals will become extinct. Lidl have lovely duck ostrich and quail. Eating meat works wonders for ones libido
  133. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:6e8677977e="loveisthelaw"]Being veggie was hip 20 years ago, when I was one just like Christianity.

    For any veggies and vegans on here, I have one question, why?

    Why deprive yourself of valuable protein? Veggie/ vegan food is tastless. By refusing to eat meet, you're depriving a poor farmer of their livelyhood and eventually animals will become extinct. Lidl have lovely duck ostrich and quail. Eating meat works wonders for ones libido[/quote:6e8677977e]

    ...
  134. avatar tinpot anto
    Not maybe the best thing in the world for the diabetes now though is it.? Lolzhard
  135. avatar loveisthelaw
    why not anto?
  136. avatar loveisthelaw
    [quote:bec04f8d85="spirit of division"][quote:bec04f8d85="loveisthelaw"]Being veggie was hip 20 years ago, when I was one just like Christianity.

    For any veggies and vegans on here, I have one question, why?

    Why deprive yourself of valuable protein? Veggie/ vegan food is tastless. By refusing to eat meet, you're depriving a poor farmer of their livelyhood and eventually animals will become extinct. Lidl have lovely duck ostrich and quail. Eating meat works wonders for ones libido[/quote:bec04f8d85]

    ...[/quote:bec04f8d85]

    Explain yourself
  137. avatar tinpot anto
    Was inerested to hear Anthony Worral Thompsons take on the taste of meat. Basically all meat is bland and it's only really veg that has any real variety in Taste and texture.

    A diet high in saturated fat and sugar, low in veg fibre and starch is the direct cause of the development of type 2 diabetes. As in eating loads of meat, especially processed meat
  138. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:ac8f186af0="loveisthelaw"][quote:ac8f186af0="spirit of division"][quote:ac8f186af0="loveisthelaw"]Being veggie was hip 20 years ago, when I was one just like Christianity.

    For any veggies and vegans on here, I have one question, why?

    Why deprive yourself of valuable protein? Veggie/ vegan food is tastless. By refusing to eat meet, you're depriving a poor farmer of their livelyhood and eventually animals will become extinct. Lidl have lovely duck ostrich and quail. Eating meat works wonders for ones libido[/quote:ac8f186af0]

    ...[/quote:ac8f186af0]

    Explain yourself[/quote:ac8f186af0]

    I wasnt quite sure if you were trying to be funny or serious...

    Veggie / vegan food is not tasteless...I'm sure you eat more than just pure meat.

    So what about farmer's livelyhoods? If I start a business that does not succeed it will close down...what difference should that be for farmers?

    Why would the animals become extinct?

    Arcadia on the Lisburn Road does great houmous.
  139. avatar savagebilliards
    one of my favourite munchie foods is falafel! man its great. falafel in pitta with homous and chilli sauce! oh yeah!
  140. avatar loveisthelaw
    Spirit, yes I am serious. In my opinion veggie and vegan food is tastless. I also eat fruit veg bread apart from meat. The farmers job is to faten the animals and kill have them killed for meat, farmers are gonna be made redundant if noones gonna eat meat so, what future is there for animals when theyre dead if nobody will eat them?
  141. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:a4c1c09b42="loveisthelaw"]Spirit, yes I am serious. In my opinion veggie and vegan food is tastless. I also eat fruit veg bread apart from meat. The farmers job is to faten the animals and kill have them killed for meat, farmers are gonna be made redundant if noones gonna eat meat so, what future is there for animals when theyre dead if nobody will eat them?[/quote:a4c1c09b42]

    So "fruit veg bread" are tasteless? Hmm.

    There are lots of animals we dont eat and they aren't extinct.
  142. avatar tinpot anto
    So you eat meat, cooked in meat stock or lard, seasoned with salt then?

    Sounds delicious
  143. avatar loveisthelaw
    [quote:0b05178aa2="spirit of division"][quote:0b05178aa2="loveisthelaw"]Spirit, yes I am serious. In my opinion veggie and vegan food is tastless. I also eat fruit veg bread apart from meat. The farmers job is to faten the animals and kill have them killed for meat, farmers are gonna be made redundant if noones gonna eat meat so, what future is there for animals when theyre dead if nobody will eat them?[/quote:0b05178aa2]

    So "fruit veg bread" are tasteless? Hmm.

    There are lots of animals we dont eat and they aren't extinct.[/quote:0b05178aa2]

    Aint saying that, I just couldnt eat them and never eat meat. Ive tried it and done nothing for me, I like booze which most of is vegan
  144. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:995c451baa="loveisthelaw"][quote:995c451baa="spirit of division"][quote:995c451baa="loveisthelaw"]Spirit, yes I am serious. In my opinion veggie and vegan food is tastless. I also eat fruit veg bread apart from meat. The farmers job is to faten the animals and kill have them killed for meat, farmers are gonna be made redundant if noones gonna eat meat so, what future is there for animals when theyre dead if nobody will eat them?[/quote:995c451baa]

    So "fruit veg bread" are tasteless? Hmm.

    There are lots of animals we dont eat and they aren't extinct.[/quote:995c451baa]

    Aint saying that, I just couldnt eat them and never eat meat. Ive tried it and done nothing for me, I like booze which most of is vegan[/quote:995c451baa]

    Before I went vegetarian I hated veg and would get meat on meat if I could...when I went vegeatrain I lived on fake meat, bread and some fruit. When I first tried being vegan it lasted 9 days...I tried again aa few days later and it's stuck over ten years. There are lots of nice foods...as Chris said Falafel is amazing! There's lots of thai / chinese / general asian foods...tofu is great if it's well done, etc...I do like the taste of meat, I just choose not to eat it.
  145. avatar Recycled Alien
    At this year's Glasgowbury, my main meal was vegetable pakoras, with salad and mint sauce in a pitta bread. It was absolutely glorious. Compare that with greasy burger made of grey "mechanically extracted meat".

    (Also, I bought it from a genuine Indian gentleman. With a Ballymena accent.)
  146. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:410ecc9ba9="spirit of division"]There are lots of animals we dont eat and they aren't extinct.[/quote:410ecc9ba9]

    In our lovely capitalist society where something's worth is derived from how useful it is, I'd say there's a fair chance that cows, sheep and pigs would be pretty secure on the endangered species list. The reason lots of animals we don't eat aren't extinct is nearly certainly because they live on land that we haven't claimed as "ours" and are wild animals. Are there any wild cows, cows that aren't owned by anyone in the world?

    Domesticated animals are at risk if we suddenly decide we have no use for them: there's only something like 50 breeding pairs of shire horses left in the world because trucks and trains are better than them.
  147. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:b7f57df505="Recycled Alien"]At this year's Glasgowbury, my main meal was vegetable pakoras, with salad and mint sauce in a pitta bread. It was absolutely glorious. Compare that with greasy burger made of grey "mechanically extracted meat".[/quote:b7f57df505]

    They both sound equally horrid.
  148. avatar Steven Dedalus
    Some thoughts:


    [quote:ea351a13b6="Sir Bob Gelding"][quote:ea351a13b6="Steven Dedalus"]

    I'm quite fond of hamburgers.[/quote:ea351a13b6]


    And other people's risotto, as far as I'm aware.[/quote:ea351a13b6]

    If it makes you feel any better, I didn't enjoy it.


    [quote:ea351a13b6="My Angel Rocks"]They both sound equally horrid.[/quote:ea351a13b6]

    True, dat.

    Although the exact phrase you have used conjures an endearing image of you in the middle of a field, dressed as a country squire, gazing at some takeaway food and turning your nose up at it.

    A friend of mine got a kebab at Glasgowbury, and I'm pretty sure I've never been more replused by the sight (and smell) of food in my life.

    [quote:ea351a13b6="The Ronster"]What if you don't care about the environment?
    Can't say it keeps me awake at night.[/quote:ea351a13b6]

    Is it wrong that I feel this way too? Does this make me as evil as Ron?
  149. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:fde7dc0c62="Steven Dedalus"]Although the exact phrase you have used conjures an endearing image of you in the middle of a field, dressed as a country squire, gazing at some takeaway food and turning your nose up at it.[/quote:fde7dc0c62]

    That's just how I roll, my good man.
  150. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:a253986120="my-angel-rocks"][quote:a253986120="spirit of division"]There are lots of animals we dont eat and they aren't extinct.[/quote:a253986120]

    In our lovely capitalist society where something's worth is derived from how useful it is, I'd say there's a fair chance that cows, sheep and pigs would be pretty secure on the endangered species list. The reason lots of animals we don't eat aren't extinct is nearly certainly because they live on land that we haven't claimed as "ours" and are wild animals. Are there any wild cows, cows that aren't owned by anyone in the world?

    Domesticated animals are at risk if we suddenly decide we have no use for them: there's only something like 50 breeding pairs of shire horses left in the world because trucks and trains are better than them.[/quote:a253986120]

    In my opinion we should have safe habits set aside for animals anyway.
  151. avatar we love records
    [quote:f3dfdacfc1="loveisthelaw"]

    For any veggies and vegans on here, I have one question, why?

    Why deprive yourself of valuable protein? Veggie / vegan food is tast(e)less. ...[/quote:f3dfdacfc1]

    Playing quite a lot of sport I get this all the time -- the where do you get your protein question.
    Would my body let me play sport on a daily basis, often pushing myself to some pretty hard extremes (8000+ calories in one go) if my diet wasn't suitable? Protein is available in many places... tofu, rice, lentils, beans, nuts... all good sources. It mightn't be in the quantities contained in eggs but I find that if you eat regularly, and consume rather a lot of food, then a vegan diet will allow you to push your body pretty hard.

    As for tasteless... have you ever eaten a proper vegan meal?
    I actually think vegan food is a bit of an indulgence... I spend a lot of time preparing and enjoying a meal - much more so than my parents (or friends - sorry there) who eat predominantly meat would - and as such I find my meals interesting, surprising and much more delicious than when I was even vegetarian.
  152. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:87df213495="spirit of division"]In my opinion we should have safe habits set aside for animals anyway.[/quote:87df213495]

    I'm not disagreeing with you on that...
  153. avatar loveisthelaw
    As I've said time and time again, yes, I've tasted vegan and veggie food and neither done anything for me. I was still hungry afterwards.

    Spirit, you've contradicted yourself, you say you like the taste of meat and yet, you choose not to eat it?!
  154. avatar daveshorty
    how's that a contradiction?
  155. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:9e523840e5="loveisthelaw"]As I've said time and time again, yes, I've tasted vegan and veggie food and neither done anything for me. I was still hungry afterwards.

    Spirit, you've contradicted yourself, you say you like the taste of meat and yet, you choose not to eat it?![/quote:9e523840e5]

    What contradiction? I choose to not eat it regardless of the taste. Just because you like something / it feels good, doesn't mean you should / need to do it.
  156. avatar loveisthelaw
    [quote:303cf75cf0="daveshorty"]how's that a contradiction?[/quote:303cf75cf0]

    How isnt it? I eat meat because I like the taste of it, amoung other reasons. I dont eat or drink anything I consider to taste vile
  157. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:7a8286cf7e="loveisthelaw"][quote:7a8286cf7e="daveshorty"]how's that a contradiction?[/quote:7a8286cf7e]

    How isnt it? I eat meat because I like the taste of it, amoung other reasons. I dont eat or drink anything I consider to taste vile[/quote:7a8286cf7e]

    ? That doesnt make sense.

    I happen to also like the vegan food I eat.
  158. avatar Chi-Lite
    I suggest we all just start eating each other, before this thread gets even more ridiculous.

    :lol:

    Come on to fuck. evolution and all that.
  159. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:439f55dd16="niallgraham"]
    I'm sick of all the same old w@nky "moral" arguments.

    "Yeah, but a cow had a central nervous system! It walked around and ate and breathed"

    Who cares? A cow does not even know it's a fvcking cow. It's not self aware. It's a grass eating, shitting, reproducing, weather predicting machine.
    [/quote:439f55dd16]

    Yeah, but an infant is not self-aware either. Nor are some people with brain damage or mental retardation (excuse me if it's not the PC word, can't think of a better one). So basically if we follow this part of your argument then it's perfectly morally acceptable to eat infants, people with mental retardation or brain damage.
    But then again I suppose you'd think it is not morally acceptable to do so and would be very well against eating such people. If that is the case, then your argument in this case is complete bollocks.

    [quote:439f55dd16="Jim Cava"]These animals would not have experienced any life at all were it not for the meat industry.
    [/quote:439f55dd16]

    It's completely irrelevant if those animals did or did not come to be if their life is going to be put to an end artificially anyway, isn't it though?

    [quote:439f55dd16="loveisthelaw"]
    For any veggies and vegans on here, I have one question, why?

    Why deprive yourself of valuable protein?
    [/quote:439f55dd16]

    What valuable proteins? The same proteins you can get through rice, nuts and cereals?

    [quote:439f55dd16="loveisthelaw"]Veggie/ vegan food is tastless.
    [/quote:439f55dd16]

    But that is just your pont of view to be fair. I for one think that vegetarian/vegan food is in many instances much more tasty.

    [quote:439f55dd16="loveisthelaw"]what future is there for animals when theyre dead if nobody will eat them?[/quote:439f55dd16]

    That is a non-argument though.
    It's not like we eat animals because there are too many of them. It's the other way round, there are to many animals because we eat them. Meat animals are as many as they are because they are intensively reared for meat consumption (and other uses), if everyone stopped eating meat there would be a slow process of balance where the number of farmyard animals would reach a 'natural' quota.

    Plus, as there where religious mentions, if we go along the lines of Krsna philosophy, we can still use farmyard animals 'humanely' without eating them. Hinduism, as we all know, regards the cow as a sacred animal and will in most instances refuse to eat bovine meat but they still use cows and bulls for farming with the only difference that in many cases there is a relationship of mutual support where the farmer will treat the cow with respect and give it shelter and food and the cow will in turn support the farmer when it comes to farmwork.
    Just because, in a hypothetical vegetarian/vegan world, we wouldn't rear cows (for example) for meat doesn't mean there would be no use for them at all. They have been the backbone of farming since farming started and I reckon that it would still be the case if we reverted to a subsistence or more balanced way of farming.

    (And sorry if I sound like an annoyin obnoxious prick. Train journeys between Germany and Poland are not fun or relaxing).
  160. avatar The Ronster
    [quote:5a5cae917f="POSITIVExYOUTH"]Yeah, but an infant is not self-aware either.[/quote:5a5cae917f]

    Does this mean I can or can't eat Prog/loveisthelaw? He's about as self-aware as an infant. A dead one to be specific.
  161. avatar Chi-Lite
    Come on. Both cows and infants are self-aware. Just like foetuses.
  162. avatar goatboy
    [quote:d4a13ccb46="The Ronster"][quote:d4a13ccb46="POSITIVExYOUTH"]Yeah, but an infant is not self-aware either.[/quote:d4a13ccb46]

    Does this mean I can or can't eat Prog/loveisthelaw? He's about as self-aware as an infant. A dead one to be specific.[/quote:d4a13ccb46]

    I can't believe I never made the connection.

    I knew he was back, just didn't know under what username.
  163. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:875481e2ad="Chi-Lite"]Come on. Both cows and infants are self-aware. Just like foetuses.[/quote:875481e2ad]Uh-oh... my abortion argument senses are tingling - ready the egregious folder.








    [size=6:875481e2ad]pro choice[/size:875481e2ad]
  164. avatar Bones
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJqz7hfWjeA
  165. avatar Audioperm
    Did the whole veggie thing for six months but the beer got the better of me. IE i would get very drunk and then go to the chinkies for a sausage supper. Beer is a very BAD thing if your trying to not to eat meat!.
  166. avatar Audioperm
    GIN as well!!
  167. avatar Audioperm
    Never had any problem with Cider tho! nver ended up in the chinkies when i drank cider. A light has just gone on! I might give it another go.
  168. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    Ah post-vegetarians, what a bunch of silly twats.

    And the booze excuse is a bit of a weak one, I know people that get raging drunk but still manage not to eat meat.
  169. avatar spirit of division
    If it comes to drinking and eating meat or not drinking and not eating me then make a decision...?
  170. avatar gl2200
    [quote:75097fe118="spirit of division"]...is mac vegan?[/quote:75097fe118]

    Yes, but only for the last 19 years.
  171. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:6d6e5e6401="gl2200"][quote:6d6e5e6401="spirit of division"]...is mac vegan?[/quote:6d6e5e6401]

    Yes, but only for the last 19 years.[/quote:6d6e5e6401]

    I knew you were veggie...wasnt sure about vegan...apologies! Are there any prizes or awards the longer we do it for? Like a watch at twenty years or such? Anything?
  172. avatar Strong Reaction
    I think you just get abuse and people spit on you in the street.

    I would like some sos-mix.
  173. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:4f724bc523="Strong Reaction"]I think you just get abuse and people spit on you in the street.

    I would like some sos-mix.[/quote:4f724bc523]

    There's some in my kitchen...
  174. avatar Strong Reaction
    I'll bring the baps. Get some cheesecake on the go.
  175. avatar spirit of division
    I'll be making some vegan cheesecake this week!
  176. avatar NumberBlack
    [quote:eef9302d52="Strong Reaction"]I would like some sos-mix.[/quote:eef9302d52]

    Me too, sos mix sausage rolls taste better than most things.
  177. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:e5f3737c12="spirit of division"]If it comes to drinking and eating meat or not drinking and not eating me then make a decision...?[/quote:e5f3737c12]

    Are you making a very subtle suggestion to do what I think you are suggesting of doing? lolz

    And on the matter of sos-mix and such, vegans will need to tell me where to find seitan and sos-mix and will have to teach me how to make it. Might give a stab at the whole vegan thing once I get back to Belfast for good.
  178. avatar daveshorty
    [quote:e3413ef8e7="POSITIVExYOUTH"][quote:e3413ef8e7="spirit of division"]If it comes to drinking and eating meat or not drinking and not eating me then make a decision...?[/quote:e3413ef8e7]

    Are you making a very subtle suggestion to do what I think you are suggesting of doing? lolz

    And on the matter of sos-mix and such, vegans will need to tell me where to find seitan and sos-mix and will have to teach me how to make it. Might give a stab at the whole vegan thing once I get back to Belfast for good.[/quote:e3413ef8e7]

    piece of piss
  179. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:3122631a51="daveshorty"]piece of piss[/quote:3122631a51]

    Good to know, at least it might be easier then. I might munch like a bastard on vegan substitutes, but I still have no clue on how to prepare them.
  180. avatar savagebilliards
    SOS mix etc is really quite easy to do but it can take a few goes to get right (seasoning, herbs, spices etc). I love cooking so i actually far prefer prepraing veggie dishes than meat ones. However I do like to eat meat too as its a nice change. I have fallen off the wagon i suppose....but then its not cool anymore lol!?(joke)

    As far as sports etc if you are into sports nutrition then any diet should be taken seriously. A vegan diet would be low in saturated fat although I must say that eating enough protein is made slightly more difficult as you would need to consume greater amounts of pulses and nuts etc. I do know that this dude Kenneth Williams is a famous vegan bodybuilder. He eats truck loads of sweetpotato, avocado and squash and beans. He must fart like fuck!

    Kenneth Williams:
    [img]http://images.google.co.uk/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.vegforlife.org/IMAGES/kenneth.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEq05NZnc8BQQdi8mVvTEwSSiu5mg[/img]

    or is this him?:D

    [img]http://images.google.co.uk/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01202/Kenneth-Williams-4_1202838c.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEC0eC8XIluX4Z87Guz8RIQ6LIQgg[/img]
  181. avatar savagebilliards
    [quote:6be629b5de="POSITIVExYOUTH"]Ah post-vegetarians, what a bunch of silly twats.

    And the booze excuse is a bit of a weak one, I know people that get raging drunk but still manage not to eat meat.[/quote:6be629b5de]

    Ah c'mon Bob! No way. I dunno like but the only time i am/was tempted to throw caution to the wind and scoff meat/smoke loadsa fags/climb on roof of forestside and get done by the peelers sliding down it in the rain, was when i was/am pure blocked!

    I dont think that's a weak excuse. As you said in a previous topic drinking can effect judgement etc.

    Tho in fairness I'm just standing up for us binge-drnking-post-veggie-hooligans.;)
  182. avatar loveisthelaw
    It seems carnivores are a dying breed. I spent this afternoon in a friends house,she is now on a solid diet of water fruit and raw veg, nothing more- nothing less, she's even trying to sell her cooker.

    I even know a veggie thats a butcher, but I can sort of see why he wouldnt want to eat meat if he's selling it all day, he'd probabily get sick of the look and smell of it and hence would not want to eat it at home
  183. avatar loveisthelaw
    [quote:1b66c4592c="Audioperm"]Did the whole veggie thing for six months but the beer got the better of me. IE i would get very drunk and then go to the chinkies for a sausage supper. Beer is a very BAD thing if your trying to not to eat meat!.[/quote:1b66c4592c]

    How is it ?, beer is vegan, guinness is veggie and even if you're pissed and need a midnight snack, theres veggie options in take-aways.

    I've other points, in my experience nuts rices ect are only short term nutrients, one could not possibly have a bag of nuts for breakfast and be able to survive the whole day without eating again untill the next morning. Cereal is only vegan if it's consumed with soya milk.
  184. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    Well, for the weak excuse defence, I have a very significant example of a ginger friend that plays in a band that at times gets absolutely trollied but still manages to remember to get the veggie options from Esperanto. I'll live you to imagine who this ginger friend is ahahah

    But yeah, seems that these days the whole raw vegan thing is all the rage and surprisingly it seems that there is a relatively good number of them in Northern Ireland (I might be mistaken, but I think there is even a proper group or organisation of raw vegans in NI).
  185. avatar Bones
    haha that reeks of Lawlor! The booze argument is weak and pathetic. I'm a heavy drinker and a vegan, my attitude towards consuming animal products does not change when im drunk just like my attitudes towards anything else I take moral issue with. I can see if you have real cravings for animal corpses then your will power might be significantly lower when your blocked but being drunk is not an excuse to throw away any core beliefs you have.
  186. avatar savagebilliards
    so i'm pathetic now am i? he he!
  187. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:ef41bb5474="Bones"]haha that reeks of Lawlor![/quote:ef41bb5474]

    And you would be absolutely right.

    But I think the problem, for me, of the drunk excuse is the fact that probably if someone gives up after one too many drinks then maybe the committment wasn't as strong to start with.
  188. avatar savagebilliards
    put a big anecdote up there but it bored the crap outta me so fuck it!:lol:

    There's only one way to settle this...........[size=200]FIGHT![/size]

    [img:66164247b7]http://www.harryhills.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/harry_hill.jpg[/img:66164247b7]
  189. avatar loveisthelaw
    To all you vegans, I hate to rain on your parade but, the fact of the matter is there are less products available to buy when you rule out dairy products. I for one would be in worse condition if I went vegan because, fruit contains alot of carbs, some are naturally sweet which can make a naturally big brut like myself clinically obesese after extra indulgence. Ive cooked vegan soups and although, I enjoyed the preperation and it looked tasty, the consumption was bland and tastless. If I was vegan it would be fruit veg booze and boiled sweets, which again would do me more harm than meat
  190. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    Ah I don't know. Everytime I have eaten vegan food it has been some of the healthiest food I have ever eaten. I regularly go to a vegan cafe here in Warsaw and it's better food than any other restaurant because all the food is made from fresh ingredients and made on the spot, rather than being pre-prepared food or even worse frozen food as it happens in any 'budget' or affordable restaurant.

    And I think that the limit of what you can use with a vegan diet actually works to its advantage because being naturally limited compared to a diet that incorporates dairy products or meat, you have to be extremely imaginative of what you can do and have to try to mix different ingredients to try and get the perfect mix.
  191. avatar loveisthelaw
    But healthy isnt necessarily tasty
  192. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    But unhealthy is not necessarily tasty either. It all depends on what you use when you cook and the combinations. And I think that it's actually not as hard to come up with something healthy and tasty when it comes to vegan food if the art of mixing different flavours is mastered.
  193. avatar loveisthelaw
    In that case send me some vegan recipes to loveisthelaw@rock.com, note I have an allergy to tomatoes
  194. avatar spirit of division
    It is healthier if done right...I'm not too great at finding a balance but I try. Regardless of whether or not you find it "bland and tasteless" that's not the point for most vegans...most do it to avoid causing detriment to animals or the enviroment. In saying that I find being vegan great - I eat a greater variety of items than when I ate meat and love trying new things...before it was meat and some potato thing...maybe peas...
  195. avatar savagebilliards
    Ok i totally disagree about the vegan food being bland thing! It is definitly not! If by bland you mean it doesnt taste of meat and fat then yeah its bland! Vegan and vegetarian cooking is great.

    But i do think there is a bit of an attitude at times from non meat eaters and from this thread the following arguments seem to be arising: You're not vegan - dick, you're only veggie, not vegan - dick and then the you used to not eat meat now you do - you're a total wab!

    Obviously I aint taring everyone with the same brush here but preaching vegans that cant accept others choices are just as sickenly annoying to me as preaching Christians! (and i do understand that stating your beliefs is very different from being a preaching moron and i'm not getting at anyone in particular just wondering what others think?)
  196. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    For the recipe I think I'll leave it to Kev, apparently he makes a killer Thai curry.
  197. avatar Rock Danger
    [quote:e8b9c0c3be="savagebilliards"]just wondering what others think?)[/quote:e8b9c0c3be]

    Think yer right, but it's nothing compared to the majority of straight edgers / vegans in the early 90's - those fuckers had a serious chip on their shoulder and couldn't be more righteous if they tried, which is probably why I still associate them in my mind with preachy Christians. The whole 'if you can't kill it you shouldn't eat it' argument is retarded. The only thing wrong about eating meat is overindulgence, but that applies to a lot of things.

    Why not make a tasty vegan dish, then throw a steak on and some dairy? Maximum taste achieved! :D
  198. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:8d5263ee9e="savagebilliards"]Ok i totally disagree about the vegan food being bland thing! It is definitly not! If by bland you mean it doesnt taste of meat and fat then yeah its bland! Vegan and vegetarian cooking is great.

    But i do think there is a bit of an attitude at times from non meat eaters and from this thread the following arguments seem to be arising: You're not vegan - dick, you're only veggie, not vegan - dick and then the you used to not eat meat now you do - you're a total wab!

    Obviously I aint taring everyone with the same brush here but preaching vegans that cant accept others choices are just as sickenly annoying to me as preaching Christians! (and i do understand that stating your beliefs is very different from being a preaching moron and i'm not getting at anyone in particular just wondering what others think?)[/quote:8d5263ee9e]

    It cuts boths ways. Many meat eaters seem to take the view that merely being veggie or vegan is an attack on their eating habits. Veggie / vegan topics often end riddled with comments such as...

    [quote:8d5263ee9e="Rock Danger"]
    Why not make a tasty vegan dish, then throw a steak on and some dairy? Maximum taste achieved! :D[/quote:8d5263ee9e]

    ...regardless if meant in a funny or otherwise manner, it just turns discussion into mosty useless drivel.
  199. avatar Rock Danger
    [quote:ad0e38d8f8="spirit of division"]

    It cuts boths ways. Many meat eaters seem to take the view that merely being veggie or vegan is an attack on their eating habits. Veggie / vegan topics often end riddled with comments such as...

    [quote:ad0e38d8f8="Rock Danger"]
    Why not make a tasty vegan dish, then throw a steak on and some dairy? Maximum taste achieved! :D[/quote:ad0e38d8f8]

    ...regardless if meant in a funny or otherwise manner, it just turns discussion into mosty useless drivel.[/quote:ad0e38d8f8]

    Because the discussion has been so level headed up till now.

    I don't think a lot of meat eaters see vegans as people attacking their eating habits but more as limp-wristed little girls with pasty white skin, whose bones may snap due to rickets etc etc.
  200. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:9f93ec4605="Rock Danger"][quote:9f93ec4605="spirit of division"]

    It cuts boths ways. Many meat eaters seem to take the view that merely being veggie or vegan is an attack on their eating habits. Veggie / vegan topics often end riddled with comments such as...

    [quote:9f93ec4605="Rock Danger"]
    Why not make a tasty vegan dish, then throw a steak on and some dairy? Maximum taste achieved! :D[/quote:9f93ec4605]

    ...regardless if meant in a funny or otherwise manner, it just turns discussion into mosty useless drivel.[/quote:9f93ec4605]

    Because the discussion has been so level headed up till now.

    I don't think a lot of meat eaters see vegans as people attacking their eating habits but more as limp-wristed little girls with pasty white skin, whose bones may snap due to rickets etc etc.[/quote:9f93ec4605]

    I wasnt talking about this one thread in particular.

    Arent you pasty?
  201. avatar Rock Danger
    [quote:bf539e0c24="spirit of division"]I wasnt talking about this one thread in particular.

    Arent you pasty?[/quote:bf539e0c24]

    Oh, well you could have clarified. Umm, nope - I got me one of those tans this year, but usually I'd be typical 'Irish pasty' yes.
  202. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    [quote:d44885a786="Rock Danger"]I don't think a lot of meat eaters see vegans as people attacking their eating habits but more as limp-wristed little girls with pasty white skin, whose bones may snap due to rickets etc etc.[/quote:d44885a786]

    It might be worded in a different way, but that is still asserting that a diet which includes meat is superior to a vegan/vegetarian diet. Which is the accusation a lot of vegans/vegetarians get as soon as they even just say they are vegan/vegetarian.
  203. avatar savagebilliards
    The distinction between pasty and pastie must be made here, ha ha only messin! I know what you are saying Pete for sure.
  204. avatar Rock Danger
    [quote:606d91334a="POSITIVExYOUTH"]

    It might be worded in a different way, but that is still asserting that a diet which includes meat is superior to a vegan/vegetarian diet. Which is the accusation a lot of vegans/vegetarians get as soon as they even just say they are vegan/vegetarian.[/quote:606d91334a]

    I think it is superior in terms of ease and it's not like the meat eaters don't have the option to have a vegan or veggie meal. You guys limit yourselves based usually on a moral decision which is fair enuff, but don't spit on my cupcake and tell me it's frosting.

    peas.
  205. avatar spirit of division
    Meat eaters definatly do have it easier when it comes to convenience but only in terms of eating out, though being realistic I can always find somewhere to eat.
  206. avatar loveisthelaw
    [quote:180a7b861e="spirit of division"]Meat eaters definatly do have it easier when it comes to convenience but only in terms of eating out, though being realistic I can always find somewhere to eat.[/quote:180a7b861e]

    Aye, McDonalds do fries and coke;)
  207. avatar Bones
    Savage: i wasn't calling you pathetic, I was referring to audioperm who was all omg lolz I drank gin and had a friggin steak. Whatever. Clearly this person had no real substance to their beliefs if a few drinks made them cave in. Also, i don't think any of the veggies/vegans on here are preaching, this thread was started by a veggie and has been hijacked by carnivores dishing out all the usual abuse and spouting crap, small minded arguments. We're merely defending ourselves from these attacks.

    As for people who think vegan food is bland, either you can't fuckin cook or the vegan meals you've had have been prepared by someone who can't cook. If i can impress my 58 year old (highly carniverous)da
    with my vegan cooking then id say it's anything but bland. EVEN if it was, taste is irrelvant to the moral or environmental argument.

    Now I'm bored shitless with this thread, im away to eat some raw vegetables and wank over hunt sab videos.
  208. avatar spirit of division
    [quote:475bb0a81a="Bones"]...taste is irrelvant to the moral or environmental argument.
    [/quote:475bb0a81a]

    Totally agree.
  209. avatar savagebilliards
    Kev I know you weren't I was only messin!
  210. avatar tinpot anto
    [img]http://bit.ly/8XPVzq[/img]
  211. avatar Deestroyer
    :lol:
  212. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    LOL
  213. avatar nonlogic liam
    I went veggie five years ago in order to seem popular and hip. It was in no way connected to the health benefits I feel everyday. I hate being called a vegetarian, I am a person who happens to not eat meat, fish, knee/neck/eye/hoof/tail/ear/nose/arse bits.
  214. avatar feline1
    [quote:85785a1360="nonlogic liam"]I went veggie five years ago in order to seem popular and hip. It was in no way connected to the health benefits I feel everyday. I hate being called a vegetarian, I am a person who happens to not eat meat, fish, knee/neck/eye/hoof/tail/ear/nose/arse bits.[/quote:85785a1360]

    You should try eating arse again. Your partner will love you.
  215. avatar nonlogic liam
    Well we all know that you like a mouthful of meat, David.
  216. avatar Deestroyer
    Does [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/06/meat-production-veganism-deforestation]this[/url]change anyone else's mind?
  217. avatar Recycled Alien
    Monbiot is saying that it would be OK to eat meat if the food industry wasn't so stupidly fucked up. So, er, yeah, good point George.
  218. avatar feline1
    the worst thing is all those gays who keep shagging women.
  219. avatar ssmcmullan
    'I'd rather fish pieces of shit out of the toilet than eat meat. It repulses, revolts and disgusts me.'
  220. avatar Strong Reaction
    I no longer refer to myself as vegetarian. Or heterosexual.
  221. avatar Rosemary St Books
    MEEEEEAAAAAT FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!

    *hurls a McColgans burger into the melee*
  222. avatar Stevie Mac
    I'd totally go vegan if it gave me telekinetic powers.

    [img:dc4ff06ecd]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4691298985_6da2a73df7_z.jpg[/img:dc4ff06ecd]
  223. avatar POSITIVExYOUTH
    Sorry to say but that article (and probably the book too) don't really change anything, I'm afraid. Firstly, and most obviously because it doesn't have anything to do with the moral and ethical considerations of vegetarianism/veganism. And secondly because, despite rising some very good points and opening interesting scenarios, it only provides a partial revision of the ecological considerations and spectacularly fails at taking into consideration other important factors of the ecological issue.