1. avatar mduke561
    Hello All

    So just graduated from SARC(Queens) there over the summer from their undergrad Music tech course. Was wondering if anyone knew of or had any ideas for jobs in the industry. Seriously i have looked at every recruitment site ever created and none of them are posting jobs anywhere near the kind of thing im looking. Im looking really anything to do with the industry, sound design, engineering, producing, anything in the creative audio kind of area. I am open to anything like?

    I dont have alot of contacts in the industry and i realise that most of these jobs are foot in the door kind of things but if anyone knows of any foot in the door opportunities, would be much appreciated. I have even put together a portfolio online of some of my work with sound design and graphics etc (www.10manproductions.co.uk).

    Peace

    MD
  2. avatar confetti
    You could always do work experience in the BBC https://jobs.bbc.co.uk/fe/tpl_bbc03.asp?newms=se It would get you in the door, although it's not paid.

    I think there is some sort of apprentice programme as well every few months.
  3. avatar Stevie Mac
    I really, really wish there were some.
  4. avatar mduke561
    Tell me about it, like there is nothing about. I was hoping someone on here would know of some opportunities or something??
  5. avatar rubyvroom
    I hate to break it to you, but a degree in music doesn't guarantee you a 'job' in music. I graduated 5 years ago, and there was no-one waiting for me with a neat application form and musical office to walk in to. I had to craft it myself through much tedious networking, grant applications, working in cafe's etc... Don't mean to sound like a kill joy, but when one chooses to work in the arts there is rarely an easy, laid-out path.. ;)
  6. avatar Rocky
    I do often wonder if students enrolling in these courses ever consider how difficult it will be to find a job at the end of their studies.
    Are the universities stretching the truth with the opportunities available to those who complete the courses?

    The obvious truth is that Belfast is a tiny city, with a small population and a wider music industry in it's infancy and that's being kind.

    There are opportunities out there, there are pro audio manufacturers in Belfast, recording studios, a couple of post houses and a lot of live sound companies. There are also advertising agencies and
    film makers looking for compositions.

    Most of these music companies are small operations, with more people looking work than there are jobs available.

    Having taken on loads of work experience people over the years, SARC students included, I've for the most part (in all cases but one) found the people to be well educated, but completely unsuitable/useless.
    This has been due to not having enough real-life experience.
    Yeah, they knew the theory behind acoustics - but could they wrap up a microphone cable?
    Know how to treat microphones? Know how to keep a session running smooth when the band are fighting amongst each other? Know how to act responsibly and suitably and be useful enough to want to keep?

    My advice would be to gain real experience in as many areas as you think they be of benefit.

    I've found that at every step of the way, from being in a band, to doing live sound, to working in a post studio, to opening my own music studio, you have to be prepared to start everything yourself,
    offer help for free to anyone you think could help you. Work for free for a really long time,
    work the worst part of those peoples jobs for little-to-no money. Work long hours for years on end.
    If you have something to offer eventually you'll come good.

    And personally, I would recommend not going to university to studio music technology for anyone who wants to actually work in the music industry, certainly in the creative side of it anyway.
    The only benefit I can really see, is that you have a degree and have a better hope of getting a job if it all goes wrong.

    I think you need to have a really strong vision of what you want to do,
    know the steps that will get you there and go out and make it happen.
    It's when you don't need the jobs that they'll generally start being offered to you.

    General recruitment routes will often not be specific enough for what is a very focused industry,
    I would never generally advertise a job based on what I'd be looking for in an employee.

    You should learn the industry you're trying to break into. Who works where?
    What companies exist? etc etc etc

    I started by knocking on the doors of local promoters, offering to help the soundguys in bars,
    help the bands load in and out. I learned loads about good music, different equipment
    and everystep of the way it introduced me to the people that I would work with next.
    That's still true to this day.
  7. avatar T Entertainment
    "Are the universities stretching the truth with the opportunities available to those who complete the courses?"


    Not so much stretching the truth as telling great, whopping, fantastical lies in order to get people in the door and their fee cheques in the bank. See also media and the law. Far, far too many courses and applicants for what was already a relatively tiny number of jobs, currently diminishing in NI at a scary rate.
  8. avatar fastfude
    Did the Nobel fellas lose Rocky's nomination down the back of the sofa this morning? The above (and previous) posts on his first-hand experience are worth their weight in gold*



    *may need to be printed onto something heavy, such as actual gold.
  9. avatar exitonline
    [quote:1c14e4e6fa="Rocky"]I do often wonder if students enrolling in these courses ever consider how difficult it will be to find a job at the end of their studies.
    Are the universities stretching the truth with the opportunities available to those who complete the courses?

    The obvious truth is that Belfast is a tiny city, with a small population and a wider music industry in it's infancy and that's being kind.[/quote:1c14e4e6fa]

    I have to agree with most of what Rocky said here. I graduated from the same degree and I know the situation. When your in Uni doing this degree, various lecturers/career advisors fill your head with how you'll walk straight into a big studio job or job in the industry. However, before I started the degree I went in knowing this was just a warped outlook. However, I wanted to do the degree to learn the advanced theory to backup the practical knowledge, which is what I got out of the degree. Since completing the degree I have experienced and worked in several studios on a freelance basis including Air Studios and this is where I found out what these people are looking for. Rocky mentioned that most of the SARC graduated are useless at practical experience and I witnessed at first hand someone doing their final year recordings not knowing how to use a microphone, e.g. wondering why the sound was so low and reflected (using the wrong side of the mic). But I found the degree to be a benefit in the big studios because they actually want people to know the theory behind things as they get loads of people who claim to know recording inside out but have no clue why it works, digital technology, acoustics etc. So from this angle I would recommend the degree. Since doing my degree I went on to become certified as a ProTools operator which has opened up employment opportunities, even to do this I had to go down to Dublin, there's no facilities in NI to do this. But as Rocky said Northern Ireland is still developing a music industry so it may get better, but we're still light years behind London or even Dublin at the minute so expecting a big studio job on your doorstep may not be realistic. But there certainly is allot of live sound companies etc that could be of benefit.
  10. avatar Pavel
    Well put post there Rocky.
  11. avatar darkprince07
    I've always had an interest in music, and although I have no degrees in musical technology or theory I'm pretty much already stepping in to the music scene and business. Just 2 months ago I posted an advert on this very site, about helping out bands setting up, doing sound, helping shift gear, people laughed in my face, but now, I know how to set-up a full P.A, mic up drums and amps, work the mixer and do sound, promote and advertise bands and gigs, do DJin with CD decks and Ipods, hell, Ive even learnt ho to face up to a tough crowd......all in the space of 2 months. I've already built up a good rep and met loads of contacts....been offered rock DJ slots in certain clubs, I'm even sponsored music gear, guitar and amp.

    It doesn't pay much 20 - 40 per night and dependent on turnout, but it is experience.

    Have to say Thanks to Andy for the opportunity :) mr flightstrip :D

    Oh, I have also learnt that N.I is a very crap place for unknown bands....your almost guaranteed a dissapointing turnout if your not well known, unless its a battle of bands. Even the best gig advertising sometimes isn't enough.
  12. avatar mduke561
    Thanks so much for all your feedback...whats its boiling to is that there really isnt jobs out there to be applied for? You have to really get your foot in the door, work hard, and create a job for yourself! Great! Anyone suggest a good sound design studio in Northern Ireland?? Surely the NI will get better??

    On the uni front they clearly dodged the job opportunities question alot and stole all our money. But the undergrad course in sarc, although not great for getting a job, totally broadened my attitudes and horizons and i fecking loved it but then maybe im a freak! lol

    Thanks
  13. avatar adamb1026
    I did my networking over the summer and I still am, and no-one seems to hire or have their own sound designer or looking for anyone at the moment.

    For theatre, Directors seem to like to do it themselves to keep the production cheap or don't use that much sound.

    I've sent my CV to various places in Belfast and even England to try and get some work with either no response or 'thank you, we will keep you on file'.

    Luckily, through my roommate and keeping in contact with Lectures, Directors etc, I have thankfully gotten work as sound engineer on a show with a pretty established production company.

    After that, again just networking, e-mailing. There's not much else we can do.
  14. avatar tinpot anto
    Belfast's churning out far more qualified people than the local jobmarket can support?

    Seems like an opportunity to make Belfast the place where everyone else goes to get their sound design/sonic stuff, same as Dundee is suddenly game central.

    Seriously, this how bioscience does it. Find something noone else can do and do it well, then as the business grows you have a virtually unlimited source of well trained graduates to draw on to sustain your business.

    Takes balls, talent and vision.

    yeo
  15. avatar artyfufkin
    Sad but true. I spent 4 years doing a BMus(Hons)in Jordanstown which I thoroughly enjoyed but most of the stuff I had to study was completley irrelevant to anything in the real 'working musician' world. My only saving grace at the time was that I was already working when I entered the degree so I had some idea of the reality of being a performer.
  16. avatar darkprince07
    Really what these courses should provide is the practical approach to Sound engineering and set-up of equipment, I know If I were to teach a course at anything I would find the need to provide hands on experience to my students. For example, anyone doing a degree in Sound engineering should also know How to set-up a PA and mic things up to make the best possible sound output for the venue at hand, because each venue has its own accoustic preference, they should know how to keep each and every piece of equipment in a non-damaging conservative manner, not to mention using very large mixing desks upto 64input. So what the courses should do is every month or so, have the student set-up for a small gig and do sound, you can learn alot just from watching aswell so for the first few attempts an experienced soundman should be at hand.
  17. avatar mduke561
    Thanks for everyone's posts, if anyone knows of any paid or unpaid work in the sound design or studio area you can let me know!
  18. avatar exitonline
    [quote:2e8a94bbc3="darkprince07"]Really what these courses should provide is the practical approach to Sound engineering and set-up of equipment, I know If I were to teach a course at anything I would find the need to provide hands on experience to my students. For example, anyone doing a degree in Sound engineering should also know How to set-up a PA and mic things up to make the best possible sound output for the venue at hand, because each venue has its own accoustic preference, they should know how to keep each and every piece of equipment in a non-damaging conservative manner, not to mention using very large mixing desks upto 64input. So what the courses should do is every month or so, have the student set-up for a small gig and do sound, you can learn alot just from watching aswell so for the first few attempts an experienced soundman should be at hand.[/quote:2e8a94bbc3]

    I know that on the music technology course at Queens this is actually one of the tutorial tests that you do in your first few weeks. Live sound is got out of the way quickly in favour of more advanced studio sound and theory. I wouldn't say this course has any problems from a practical element. Your taught massive amounts of theory about how everything works but, as with everything at university level its up to how you apply yourself. You have loads of opportunities to test out theory in practice at tutorials or by booking the equipment out after lectures etc and trying it out yourself. But very few students will actually do this, most maybe show up to lectures and then head to the union.
  19. avatar Steph08
    My first post!
    Hello there Im Steph
    from Atlanta USA and thought
    of posting a reply here and
    oh by the way feel free to post a
    message thanks.

    [img:8a9a6b0558]http://i38.tinypic.com/314w9hh.jpg[/img:8a9a6b0558]

    Successful wedding always begin with having wedding planning checklist and a pretty wedding favors
  20. avatar tinpot anto
    Hi steph,

    I have $230000000 I'll give you 10% or some shit if you fuck off.
  21. avatar The Stav
    Hi Steph.

    I'm prepared to offer the same amount as Anto, although I want 15% of the equity.

    For that though, you get someone who has years of experience of telling people to fuck off, and I can mentor you and take your shitty wee wedding company onto the high street with plans to expand globally by year two.
  22. avatar Deestroyer
    :lol:
  23. avatar tinpot anto
    [b:7646c3638b]An fer 'aht reason, ah'm oot.[/b:7646c3638b]
  24. avatar papaul
    If you ever read through the soundonsound.com forums, you'll find that most of them say that degrees are useless, not worth the paper they're printed on, etc etc... but I'm intending to do a degree in music technology simply because I see it as 3/4 years of experimentation & experience with people paid to be there to answer all my questions. I agree with the guy above who said most student might go to the lecture then leave and get pissed, but that's their mistake which they'll realize later. I'm just gonna use it as a chance to get as much studio time as I possibly can, I'll probably only use the qualification to get a teaching job a few years down the line, which is a good dependable source of steady money.
  25. avatar EWCraig
    Tbh your best bet is to start your own small recording studio. My mates currently doing recordings in his garage, once he gets enough cash he'll no doubt buy/rent his own premises to record on.

    It's all about starting off small and working your way up. If you wanted to be in a famous band you don't go from learning your instrument to fame, you have to work your way up the food chain, get the experience needed, get good at what you do, then hit it big.
  26. avatar mattagnew
    My first post!
    [quote:a7155248fe="Rocky"]
    And personally, [b:a7155248fe]I would recommend not going to university[/b:a7155248fe] to studio music technology for anyone who wants to actually work in the music industry, certainly in the creative side of it anyway.
    The only benefit I can really see, is that you have a degree and have a better hope of getting a job if it all goes wrong.
    [/quote:a7155248fe]

    thats a bit of a shitty thing to say rocky... tbf your right that most degree's don't get you a job straight away, it's usually up to the person themselves to get it.. and of course you won't learn quicker than throwing yourself in the deep end learning something [b:a7155248fe]but[/b:a7155248fe] i'd rather get a job and have the background info rather than go in and not having a clue...

    uni's an experience in itself, enjoy it to the max... just make sure that you network there and use some initiative...

    in fairness the lads already done his degree and is just asking for a job... sorry and a no woulda been a decent enough answer! ;)
  27. avatar JoanneNicole
    I graduated in 2004 having been in the 2nd yr to complete the course and I started working full time the day after I graduated. To be fair I had been working as an engineer for a number of years before that but I would never have got the job that progressed my career without doing Music Tech at QUB!

    Mduke PM me if you haven't got sorted and I might be able to point you in the direction of some work.

    Jo
  28. avatar Hors D'oeuvres
    To throw another spanner in the works re: the whole uni thing.....

    It's worth noting that very few students really go to university to LEARN.....most people do the bare minimum to complete the course (or, to get a 2.1 or 1st) and do little additional research/autodidactic work.....in my experience (and, in a couple of friends' experiences) it's sometimes frowned upon by fellow students to be seen in the library doing your own reading at any time not within a week of a coursework deadline....this isn't to say I'm ALWAYS working, but I tend to get books out because I enjoy learning, not because my assignment's suggested book list has them on it. With institutional education, learning benefits seem to be proportional to your effort/persistence.

    I think Rocky's also right to point out the lack of certain practical skills/knowledge....for example tying up/taping cables in an efficient way, gain staging, stuff like that.....although I haven't done the QUB MT course, so I can't comment directly about it.....

    I haven't yet completed my degree, but I've gotten quite a bit of engineering work recently, all from my own initiative....not all of it has been paid but I've stuck at it anyway because I know the experience is allowing me to make mistakes and learn......I think people need to be more prepared to do this.....although sometimes it can be tough to make time for it (part time jobs etc, degree work get in the way) but if you're really interested in something, I think it's worthwhile...

    In saying all of that, I'm not so sure I want to work in the "music industry". Mostly because it seems to be full of "melters". At least there is less egocentricity in stuff like manual laboring.....actually I've no idea why I typed this post but I'll post it anyway. Pour le craic.

    John Abercrombie/Ralph Towner's album "Five Years Later" is great for chilling out, also.
  29. avatar artyfufkin
    My own degree was a Bmus(Hons) with the UUJ and whilst it bears no relevance to the work I now do which is playing and teaching guitar for a living it was still a great experience which I would gladly go through again. I met a lot of great people, both on the course and living in Belfast for 5 years. On the downside I had to study in great depth things like Wagner operas, Tchaikovsky ballets and Schenkerian Analysis which aren't much use to me when I get a call to do a guitar gig. On the other hand, it did broaden my mind musically and a lot of the theory involved makes analysing contemporary popular music seem like mere nursery rhymes. I think it depends on the person and what you want to get out of it. Very few of the people that did the degree with me are now performing musicians. Most are music teachers in schools.