1. avatar fastfude
    Given FF's utility as a place to find out all manner of information relevant and trivial, a lot of repeat questions keep coming up (easter opening hours anyone?). Having a partof the site that accumulates it all over time is a no-brainer.

    It's been something I've wanted to add to the site since for-frickin'-ever, but finding a good, lightweight wiki that integrates well with what we have has been an impossible mission.

    The next best thing though is Mediawiki - the same software that powers Wikipedia. Overkill in my opinion, but at least it's familiar, versatile, and well supported. I've been able to set it up to use the forum user tables, so you can log in with your forum username to make edits, no second login required.

    I've also worked out how to port over the band pages, and for bonus points, the old releases tables that I never quite got round to updating. It could use some more integration with the rest of the site like the existing band pages, but I'm working on that now.

    I'd like to extend it further to hold much of the other common info that we have buried in the forums, too. If you have suggestions on what else it could/should contain, add it here, or on the relevant Talk page of the wiki.

    [size=200][url=/wiki]Wikifudia[/url][/size]
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  2. avatar fastfude
    I should say, one of the big priorities will be working out a suitable style guide for band entries, as the imported biogs are for the most part, frickin' awful ;)

    There's lots of excellent advice in the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style]Wikipedia Manual of Style[/url] (esp. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28music%29#Popular_music]music[/url] & [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)]biog[/url] sections), and until we have more specific requirements of our own, I'd recommend working with them.
  3. avatar thebatgranny
    Please feel free to steal anything from this, it went nowhere and I was going to close it down soon anyway:

    [url=http://nibandlist.wikispaces.com/]NIBandList[/url]
  4. avatar chrisjedijane
    I hit "random page" and this came up:
    [i:8df84ef6ff]
    "High Speed Steel are a four strong thrash metal outfit from Belfast. The band has been together for around a year and a half and have played many gigs at different venues. One of the bands main aims is to bring down the false metal and nu metal scene that has grown up in belfast in recent years. We hate cunts who think they are metalheads in their baggy jeans and their HIM t-shirts! FUCK EMO ASWELL!! Main influences include 80's thrash metal and 80's /early 90's horror films this combined with a punk rock attitude leads to a fast heavy and meaningfull form of belfast thrash metal! High speed steel are Barry- vocals/bass, Kerr -Lead guitar, Zeus - drums "[/i:8df84ef6ff]

    I wonder if they ever managed to bring down false metal?
  5. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:acac38a7dd="chrisjedijane"]I wonder if they ever managed to bring down false metal?[/quote:acac38a7dd]

    Nah, they could never get the rhythm right...
  6. avatar DuncanDisorderly
    Is this going to expand to promoters / photographers / video makers etc? I think it would be a good idea.
  7. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:a53aa1e91d="chrisjedijane"]
    I wonder if they ever managed to bring down false metal?[/quote:a53aa1e91d]

    Quit sleggin' my band, McCorry!
  8. avatar fastfude
    [quote:8e04e02f55="DuncanDisorderly"]Is this going to expand to promoters / photographers / video makers etc? I think it would be a good idea.[/quote:8e04e02f55]Yes - basically everything that crops up on the forums that could be better recorded in a wiki format for future reference.
  9. avatar fastfude
    [quote:fbb0b213f7="thebatgranny"]Please feel free to steal anything from this, it went nowhere and I was going to close it down soon anyway:

    [url=http://nibandlist.wikispaces.com/]NIBandList[/url][/quote:fbb0b213f7]
    Very kind of you, cheers.

    I guess if bands have already gone to the trouble of filling out an entry on NIbandlist, they could save themselves a lot of time and effort by copy and pasting.

    I'd like to delegate as much as possible of the content entry in proper wiki fashion, and just dictate the general style and format where necessary, so feel free to throw in your 0.02
  10. avatar Dirty Stevie Grizz
    Nothing coming up for Easter Opening Hours

    Should I try "Alcos VS Christian Mentalists" instead?
  11. avatar fastfude
    Add it in, so :)
  12. avatar fastfude
    Several bands have been updating, but haven't noticed the style guide for doing it. Check out this for starters:

    [size=150][url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Help:Writing_Band_Profiles]Writing Band Profiles[/url][/size]

    I'd also recommend browsing some of your favourite bands on Wikipedia to get an idea of how these things are structured and the style of writing. It's very matter-of-fact and information-oriented, rather than marketing-speak and press release jargon.
  13. avatar Recycled Alien
    [quote:6bdf2d2c4e="fastfude"]It's very matter-of-fact and information-oriented, rather than marketing-speak and press release jargon.[/quote:6bdf2d2c4e]Aye, but surely Wikipedia's whole purpose is to be factual, whereas a resource that's under the control of the music community could reasonably contain a bit of self-promotion.

    Although keep it tasteful. There's one local band whose music I like, whose last.fm profile, (presumably edited by themselves), reads as though it was written by a caricature record company executive. The kind who doesn't like music, but likes to sell "product".
  14. avatar Chris Madden
    can u add photos, like they have in wiki
  15. avatar fastfude
    [quote:8141b3e22b="Recycled Alien"]...a resource that's under the control of the music community could reasonably contain a bit of self-promotion...

    ...reads as though it was written by a caricature record company executive...[/quote:8141b3e22b]
    Therein lies the danger you see - in all the years FF has had band profiles, I have been appalled at the general quality of submissions.

    Bands [i:8141b3e22b]really[/i:8141b3e22b] have a problem with self-description for some reason.

    Perhaps the proliferation of tabloid music journalism over the decades deserves a frowny emoticon for that.

    Whatever the cause, the well-matured guides of Wikipedia offer some solid help in fixing the problem.

    Sure, we can be a little looser in how it's done here, but the sooner bands can write [i:8141b3e22b]well[/i:8141b3e22b] about themselves the better!
  16. avatar fastfude
    [quote:22ffd54b46="Chris Madden"]can u add photos, like they have in wiki[/quote:22ffd54b46]It's disabled at the minute, as I'd like to get the text side of things a bit more established before opening up to file uploads. It'll come in time though.
  17. avatar fastfude
    Incidentally, there are lots of other areas besides bands and releases to build up.

    Have a look at the [url=/wiki/Special:WantedPages]Wanted Pages[/url] list, for stuff that needs to be written.
  18. avatar The Ronster
    Right, I've gone and done the [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Black_Bear_Saloon]Black Bear Saloon[/url] page.

    Not to get all arsey about it, but I think its a fairly good example of style, and one that if it was adhered to by most bands would make the Wikifudia a useful resource.

    Notes:

    Can the page for [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/The_Black_Bear_Saloon]The Black Bear Saloon[/url] (note 'the') be either deleted or preferably re-directed to the other one?

    How does one simply attribute quotes from reviews etc? I couldn't figure it out - maybe if somethinglike [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cacycle/wikEd]WikiEd[/url] was enabled on the page it might make things easier for those not inclined to figure out how to correctly format a Wiki-page.

    Also - is there any likelihood of adding a category for people? I think it would be interesting to be able to click on a band member and see all the bands they've been in.

    Section for Studios?

    Enable sidebar sections for bands?

    One of those wee cool bottom sections where you can at-a-glance see a band's discography, members, past members, whatever?

    Still, it's cool to see it up and running. Just hope that bands will go to the effort of editing their page and sticking to the format.
  19. avatar thebatgranny
    Good One there Ron, I've done similar things with Sparks Fly's Page and, er, Pulszar. One question, how do you create a page that hasn't been suggested via a link? I'd like to put some of the info on the older bands up I've dug out from NIBandlist.
  20. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:20229f297b="thebatgranny"]Good One there Ron, I've done similar things with Sparks Fly's Page and, er, Pulszar. One question, how do you create a page that hasn't been suggested via a link? I'd like to put some of the info on the older bands up I've dug out from NIBandlist.[/quote:20229f297b]

    Search for it in the searchbox and if the page doesn't exist then it'll give you the option to create one.
  21. avatar fastfude
    [quote:9408694adb="The Ronster"]Not to get all arsey about it, but I think its a fairly good example of style, and one that if it was adhered to by most bands would make the Wikifudia a useful resource.[/quote:9408694adb]Great work, definitely a good example!

    [quote:9408694adb="The Ronster"]Can the page for [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/The_Black_Bear_Saloon]The Black Bear Saloon[/url] (note 'the') be either deleted or preferably re-directed to the other one?[/quote:9408694adb]
    Yep: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Redirects (I've done it for you)

    There's loads of additional functionality that can be integrated, but it'll take a bit of time and I'd like to keep the learning curve within reach for most folks.

    A couple of experienced Wikipedians to shepherd and assist everyone else will be most valuable in making it all work well.
  22. avatar fastfude
    Two suggestions:

    - Bands' releases should have a page each, listed under http://fastfude.org/wiki/Category:Releases and include the {{Infobox Album}} template at the top.

    - When listing band members, link to their User: page (where available), rather than a Main: page. eg [i:733aac792f][[User:The Ronster|Aaron Abernethy]][/i:733aac792f] (I'm contemplating making the wiki User pages the default location for user profiles at some point).

    thoughts?
  23. avatar thebatgranny
    [quote:d80f0bd106="fastfude"]Two suggestions:

    - Bands' releases should have a page each, listed under http://fastfude.org/wiki/Category:Releases and include the {{Infobox Album}} template at the top.[/quote:d80f0bd106]

    Isn't that a bit much? The most information you are going to get on the majority of local releases is a track listing and a title, maybe a picture of the cover if you are lucky. It would be a good idea for noteable releases by local artists (Ash/Van/Snow Patrol etc) but for the latest plastic Rose EP? Seems a bit pointless.


    [quote:d80f0bd106="fastfude"] When listing band members, link to their User: page (where available), rather than a Main: page. eg [i:d80f0bd106][[User:The Ronster|Aaron Abernethy]][/i:d80f0bd106] (I'm contemplating making the wiki User pages the default location for user profiles at some point).[/quote:d80f0bd106]

    You're assuming that everyone knows who everyone on FF is in real life. I'd no idea that The Ronster was in Black Bear Saloon until he mentioned it upthread, if I was creating a BBS page I'd have no way of connecting the two. on NI Bandlist I restricted artist information (unless they were a solo artist) to publicly available info such as the bands they were in and the instruments they play, that way nobody can get their knickers in a twist over privacy or owt, but you still get the fun of playing 5 degress of seperation :)
  24. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:0eb3521be7="thebatgranny"]You're assuming that everyone knows who everyone on FF is in real life. I'd no idea that The Ronster was in Black Bear Saloon until he mentioned it upthread, if I was creating a BBS page I'd have no way of connecting the two. on NI Bandlist I restricted artist information (unless they were a solo artist) to publicly available info such as the bands they were in and the instruments they play, that way nobody can get their knickers in a twist over privacy or owt, but you still get the fun of playing 5 degress of seperation :)[/quote:0eb3521be7]

    But anyone can edit the wikipages.
    So if you didn't know Ronster was in BBS, but I did, I could come along and add the link.
  25. avatar fastfude
    [quote:1e0a29e022="thebatgranny"]Isn't that a bit much?[/quote:1e0a29e022]aye, within reason. I was thinking only releases that have been available for purchase in stores/itunes etc, and rule out demos and random mp3s.

    [quote:1e0a29e022="thebatgranny"]publicly available info such as the bands they were in and the instruments they play, that way nobody can get their knickers in a twist over privacy or owt[/quote:1e0a29e022]That's what I'm suggesting here though! Instead of having whole wiki entries for all musicians, just link where they have a User: page already.
  26. avatar fastfude
    The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Simplified_ruleset]Wikipedia Simplified ruleset[/url] is a very handy editing and policy guide too.

    See also [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_really,_really,_really_stupid_article_ideas_that_you_really,_really,_really_should_not_create]Wikipedia:List of really, really, really stupid article ideas that you really, really, really should not create[/url], excluding rule #2 to some extent!

    There a vast amount of forum content that'll need to make its way over to the wiki. If you find anything, either add it to [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#Forum_content_to_wikify]this list[/url], go ahead and start a page.
  27. avatar fastfude
    I've just compiled a ridiculously long list of venues from the gigs list for addition to Wikifudia:

    http://fastfude.org/wiki/Category_talk:Live_Music_Venues

    If anyone would like to have a stab at adding some info to some of them, work away!
  28. avatar Recycled Alien
    Would have been worth sorting the list! Alphabetically, preferably. :S
  29. avatar fastfude
    er, tis (albeit with some cruft)!

    You wouldn't believe how many misspellings of Menagerie I cut out. Some of them must have caused injury to the typist.

    edit: I've reformatted it as a long list for easier scanning (1041 entries) :O

    edit 2: and put towns/cities into brackets, as is the fashion in polite society.

    edit 3: and! loosely grouped by county or country now
  30. avatar fastfude
    links to random Wikifudia pages now appear in the footer in place of the old band links list
  31. avatar salfhal
    Only discovered this the other day, fucking brilliant idea.

    I was just wondering about the inclusion of images (I Know someone mentioned this already)...

    It would be more intuitive (and cheaper) to pre-host images on a 3rd party website (imageshack etc) but is it the case that you have to upload to the wiki's server?

    I was having a go at it earlier, the code formats the box position etc but links to the image (when the url is used), did a bit of digging and all of the tutorials have the image name as just "name.format", making me think that they were wiki hosted files???

    I'll try to contribute as much as I possibly can (cheers to the people who helped clean up my first few submissions)
  32. avatar fastfude
    I actually wrote a little plugin today to place a Flickr gallery on band pages - add {{Infobox Band}} to the top of any band profile. (see: [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Cutaways]Cutaways[/url], [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/And_So_I_Watch_You_From_Afar]And So I Watch You From Afar[/url], [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Comply_or_Die]Comply or Die[/url].

    It'll work on any page though - just add {{gallery}} and it'll pull pics from the FF flickr pool that have a tag matching the wiki page name.
  33. avatar Recycled Alien
    Brilliant idea. Better than having to manually add pictures.

    Though I was just testing it out on the page titled "Lavery's" and it was looking for a Flickr tag "Lavery". Unfortunately the correct one would be "Laverys".
  34. avatar salfhal
    It's a good idea, but the restrictions for the Flickr group uploads means that you can't provide images for CD releases/gigs etc. ("live photography only, not logos, posters, graphics or ads").

    Perhaps a separate Flickr pool for Wikifudia resources might be the most managable way of doing that? Rather than allowing unchecked images.
  35. avatar fastfude
    I think I'll probably instigate direct wiki uploads for that kind of stuff.

    The gallery tag is really for a bit of colour and context, without having a permanent connection to the page content, while CD covers etc would be better permanently uploaded to the relevant page so links don't break and so on.
  36. avatar salfhal
    Yeah I guess so.

    Just hope it won't be too burdensome on your server.
  37. avatar salfhal
    Any idea why photo's won't load on this? [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Ashfall]WikiPage[/url]

    Used the {{Infobox Band}} and photos don't load

    The {{gallery}} template on its own doesn't work for it either...

    Apologies for being n00bish.

    (also you had any thoughts on the logo for the wikifudia pages?)

    [img:6fe3e7148a]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8621/wikifudia.png[/img:6fe3e7148a]
    [img:6fe3e7148a]http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2023/jajuklogo.png[/img:6fe3e7148a] (Stolen)
  38. avatar fastfude
    I've no idea to be honest. There's no odd characters in the name, and definitely photos in the pool. It's not very robust code yet though, so it could probably use some tidy-up.
  39. avatar Chi-Lite
    I'm obviously stupid, but why can't I add internal links?
  40. avatar The Ronster
    There does seem to have been some change in the interface since the last time I looked at it.
  41. avatar fastfude
    Internal links are thus:

    [[Page Name Here]]
    or
    [[Page Name Here|Link text to display here]]
  42. avatar Chi-Lite
    simple as that, don't know what I was doing wrong there. cheers
  43. avatar fastfude
    [quote:a0c388289b="Recycled Alien"]Though I was just testing it out on the page titled "Lavery's" and it was looking for a Flickr tag "Lavery". Unfortunately the correct one would be "Laverys".[/quote:a0c388289b]
    I think I have this fixed now -- over-zealous encoding of the page title was messing up pages with apostrophes in the title.

    [quote:a0c388289b="salfhal"]Any idea why photo's won't load on this? [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Ashfall]WikiPage[/url][/quote:a0c388289b]
    This seems to be working now too. Still not sure why it wasn't to be honest...
  44. avatar fastfude
    Also! The Infobox sidebar on band pages now also automagically pulls in links to full mp3s from the band's last.fm profile. See [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/The_Winding_Stair]The Winding Stair[/url], par example.

    Looks crude, but I'll tidy it up a touch.
  45. avatar salfhal
    A truely inspired resource. You should be proud =]
  46. avatar Recycled Alien
    [quote:a42e446bd2="fastfude"]Looks crude, but I'll tidy it up a touch.[/quote:a42e446bd2]Yeah. Little embedded player, even though it will have to be Flash.

    Any idea why it's not working for The Greeters though?
  47. avatar fastfude
    I suspect that was a combination of caching and last.fm being flaky (the server kept disappearing at random when I was writing the plugin), as it's working now - I just made an empty edit to force the cache to reload.

    It'd be nice to use the HTML5 audio element, but there's not much robust support for it yet, so yeah, a flash player probably.
  48. avatar tinpot anto
    Does some nice wiki-fluent want to volunteer to sort out our page?

    I will personally buy you a pint of wine and say nice things to you while you drink it. Afterwards I'll pretend like we've never met.

    I really can't get my head round wiki at the moment, there's too many other thinks in ma brenz
  49. avatar Recycled Alien
    [quote:e161b61d56="tinpot anto"]Does some nice wiki-fluent want to volunteer to sort out our page?[/quote:e161b61d56]What's wrong with it?

    Whoever wrote it was probably out of his head on speed, but is that a bad thing?
  50. avatar tinpot anto
    Naw the text's fine actually, Marty wrote that one back in the day and I heavily edited it to remove references to "The Brits" and stuff. Just needs updated a bit I suppose.

    It's all that other gear with the infoboxes and pics and so on.
  51. avatar Chi-Lite
    hahah, see if you'd kept in the references to the "Ta Power Document" you'd be even more authentic!

    Copy our one for format. It's dead easy, and that wee Flickr photo thing is class too...if you have loads of photos on Flickr. unfortunately we only have three old, shite ones.
  52. avatar tinpot anto
    Happy days good old Steve - thanks a million!

    Of course now I have to try and figure out the mess of a beast that is Last FM too!
  53. avatar tinpot anto
    OK finally registered Tin Pot Operation and The Tin Pot Operation to myself and uploading a couple of songs.

    Would be easier if there weren't 2 seperate listings!

    I didn't even realise you had to do such a thing.

    Might spend an hour or two this evening getting my head round last.fm then
  54. avatar Recycled Alien
    The "The" thing is last.fm is a bit of a general screw-up.

    The's a link on the profiles to "suggest a correction", (i.e. you could say that the "The" one should point to the other), although I've tried that a number of times and nothing seems to happen.

    It's annoying when it's broken the other way too. Every time I play a track by The Delawares it notches up a count for lame metal band Delaware -- exactly the band that caused them to change their name to avoid a clash.

    Maybe it's a voting quorum that's needed. Would everybody who has a last.fm account go to http://www.last.fm/music/The+Tin+Pot+Operation and click on "Suggest a correction" at the right hand column and say that it should be changed?

    And while you're at it, go to http://www.last.fm/music/+noredirect/The+Delawares and click on "Suggest a correction" and say that it's correct.
  55. avatar tinpot anto
    Yeah maybe now I've appropriated control of the band page they'll listen to me :)
  56. avatar thebatgranny
    That LastFM thingymajigger is great! You should probably put a header like 'Free mp3's' or something in the infobox so that people know they are downloadable links.
  57. avatar salfhal
    Don't quite understand how to impliment the LastFM plugin? WIKI band name matches LastFM url (http://www.last.fm/music/Ashfall), but doesn't pull tracks in. Is there code to paste or is it automated?
  58. avatar salfhal
    Just a warning to anyone posting wiki urls:

    h.t.t.p://fastfude.org/wiki/Category:Promoters

    the colon causes the link to go all funny

    e.g. this is the word wiki hyperlinked to the above address minus the dots at the http -

    [url=http://fastfude.org/wiki/Category:Promoters]wiki[/url]
  59. avatar fastfude
    Yes, it's a right pain in the hole - replace the colon with %3A (the unicode equivalent of a colon) and it'll work. another thing for the to-do list.

    Also since I purged a few of my old personal accounts on social networks, the API calls for flickr & last.fm used by the wiki have broken. Arsecakes.