1. avatar goodonpaper
    [img:da3d6241e6]http://img.skitch.com/20090406-xrf5ddxd9qpmu2aaf82ypsaf4b.jpg[/img:da3d6241e6]

    So, not content with ripping the posters down in the name of cleanliness, the Council have disposed with that method and are now apparently painting over the top of the posters. Where's the argument to say this is "keeping Belfast clean" and not sabotaging local promoters? Seriously?!
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  2. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    Probably best giving the council a ring Andy. 5 page threads on this subject over the years have resulted in nothing at all.
  3. avatar comprachio
    i guess its just to make postering become a waste of time and money in the hope it will cease to be a useful way of promoting a gig and will stop.
  4. avatar icedcoffee
    This was spotted today.
    Just plain malicious.

    [img:b193ca29ba]http://img.skitch.com/20090406-x5na6qgussyyggaa8n997nsqjp.jpg[/img:b193ca29ba]

    [img:b193ca29ba]http://img.skitch.com/20090406-bkye78gikq85rqwfn6j8qec4y.jpg[/img:b193ca29ba]

    [/cameraphone] [size=9:b193ca29ba](I know, I know)[/size:b193ca29ba]
    Last edited on , 2 times in total.
  5. avatar goodonpaper
    [quote:87db074288="Joeplaysthedrums"]Probably best giving the council a ring Andy. 5 page threads on this subject over the years have resulted in nothing at all.[/quote:87db074288]

    Thats the plan, but I thought it was worth sharing & discussing anyhow. The previous argument of trying to keep Belfast "clean" was at least somewhat understandable even if it wasn't entirely accurate (posters on walls vs posters ripped & lying all over the place) - but this is pure and simple maliciousness.
  6. avatar The_Martyr
    I know nothing, and that's a great way to get involved in a discussion, isn't it, but would there be any use in getting a group of local promoters in the same room to represent yourselves to the council and begin a compromise over ways and means.

    I know there's some southern folk who put small gig ads (4/6 to an A4 page) in this big display board, and it's all sanctioned. People can grab a flyer then for anything that catches their eye, and cos it's all official, people then know where to go to check out what's on.

    Like I said, I know nothing. But just for what it's worth...
  7. avatar Reckoner
    That's ridiculous. They want posters removed for cleanliness, so they cover them in horrible messy green paint? It looks bloody 'orrible.
  8. avatar Turks
    street.cleansing@belfastcity.gov.uk

    Might be a start. I'd like to know if they've researched the general populus about their feelings on the matter. It's like trying to stop rain as the saying goes.

    Myself and a couple of others tried to get some talk going a few years ago but I don't really think there's been anything in the way of a propper consultation done.

    Has anyone seen the ones at the Holywood Arches? That's just insane. I'll try and snap it tomorrow.
  9. avatar Reckoner
    [quote:49a3b5950a="icedcoffee"]
    [img:49a3b5950a]http://img.skitch.com/20090406-x5na6qgussyyggaa8n997nsqjp.jpg[/img:49a3b5950a]
    [/size][/quote:49a3b5950a]
    That wall has informed me of many a gig in my time. :(
  10. avatar FaeriBex
    its ridiculous that they've resorted to doing this. it puts paid to any argument about environment or aesthetics.
    what the_martyr said about getting together with the council is an idea. why cant there be designated areas for postering around the city. and if the council are worried about expense couldn't the promotion companies maybe offer to do something towards the clean up of previous out of date posters? i mean if you're going to be there putting up why cant you deal with what you put up before.
    one thing that jumps into mind during this argument is the limelight's recent billboard on the ormeau rd. its a great idea. but unaffordable for most venues/promotors. i'm not sure whether the billboards are anything to do with councils but could they just be out to look for this kind of money?
  11. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    Billboards are very expensive, and obviously not a viable alternative to fly postering for most promoters. And they're owned by private companies who lease them to advertisers.

    Honestly, anything that will be said on this subject has been said in previous topics before.

    The cleansing department were helpful when i spoke with them. But the bottom line is, it's not clear who would be liable for any prospective dedicated poster sites (legally i mean), and as such it's unlikely that this will happen in belfast any time soon. Eamonn McCann of Wonderland promotions worked on getting poster sites erected in the past and ultimately got nowhere, so it's unlikely anyone else will have much success.

    I agree, painting over posters isn't exactly solving a problem. But flypostering is illegal, and the council are out to deter people from doing it. Painting over posters does as good a job as pulling them down, and takes less time.
  12. avatar FaeriBex
    [quote:471770904b="Joeplaysthedrums"] it's not clear who would be liable for any prospective dedicated poster sites [/quote:471770904b]

    fair point thats a fairly big issue. but it could ultimately come down to a case of "if you post there you're responsible for it. its not hard to find out who the companies are so they can be held responsible, have promotors register for permission to post or something.

    i'm being slightly idealistic i know but i don't understand how its easier to spend time and money tearing them down.
  13. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    Oh, by legally liable, i mean legally liable for poster sites falling over / people walking into them etc.

    And i totally agree with you, as does everyone else that's not the BCC, but the legal liability issue is, to date, an impasse, and one that's not likely to be worked out.
  14. avatar miss catface
    they used to paint over posters all the time a while back. i just presumed they'd got complaints because that disappeared and the patrol for ripping them down was stepped up. my favourite absurd painted poster was on a light coloured stone marble pillar which someone had put an a4 poster. stupid yes but far more stupid was the black paint that destroyed the pillar. its like playground tactics but yet its our council.
  15. avatar thesneakybandit
    the walls behind most of those posters are pretty rough looking... would nobody give them a wee lick of paint!?
  16. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    I'd imagine the council are getting complaints about the paint already.

    Though most people really hate flyposting, and will support any council measures to stop it.
  17. avatar T Entertainment
    Maybe if someone could arrange a meeting with a representative from the council to address this issue an agreed way forward could be found to resolve this long running zzzzzzz...


    http://fastfude.org/topic.php?id=13080&start=45
  18. avatar Comrade Luke
    the system they had in Dundee was the best I've come across. They have a load of boards across the city with space for so many posters and a guy employed to look after them, so if you're putting on a gig you just drop a load of posters in to him with a fee (I think it was a tenner for A4) and he puts them up / takes old ones down, it seemed to work pretty well

    but sure try talk sense to the council :lol:
  19. avatar fastfude
    I've seen similar boards/stands in Edinburgh & Cardiff that worked well and were situated in busy pedestrian areas that ensured useful exposure to local promoters and artists. The best practices and precedents have been around for quite a long time, but I don't see any evidence thus far that the relevant bit of the council here are aware of them or see the need and benefit in providing them.
  20. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    Very well put Roger.
  21. avatar fastfude
    Some UK locations that have schemes and ideas on how to meet the needs of promoters and maintain clean streets:

    Liverpool: http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/News/archive/2005/newsdetail_0959.asp

    Peterborough: http://www.peterborough.gov.uk/page-5554

    Brighton & Hove: http://www.pressdispensary.co.uk/feed/991079.php (feline: has this worked? do local promoters use it?)

    Broadstairs: http://www.broadstairs.gov.uk/Core/Broadstairs/Pages/Poster_Sites_2.aspx

    Camden: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/3944551.stm
  22. avatar flackmeister
    And there's Derry hey...

    http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/pride/flyposting.asp
  23. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    It worked in Derry.
  24. avatar T Entertainment
    I remember this being debated on Jonny Hero's Show when Maurice Jay was booked by the cops for putting up a poster for The Behaviour in [i:3b9349dac6]1992[/i:3b9349dac6]...it was an old issue then!
  25. avatar fastfude
    [url=http://fastfude.org/images/misc/flyposting_interview_with_bcc.mp3]Again with the council interview from Queens Radio[/url]
  26. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:dda71f3572="goodonpaper"][img:dda71f3572]http://img.skitch.com/20090406-xrf5ddxd9qpmu2aaf82ypsaf4b.jpg[/img:dda71f3572]

    [/quote:dda71f3572]

    I think it's about time the council did something about this.

    For too long have promoters been covering some of Belfast's most beautiful buildings with colourful bits of paper.

    The building in the above picture is surely the gem in Belfast's architectural crown, and one of the city's top tourist attractions.
  27. avatar belezabaub
    I would wonder how much it costs the council for these "paint jobs" and taking down fly posters. Surely the expense of sending people out to "deal" with the issue would be better spend on preventitive measures, to my mind the best preventitive measue would be designated areas.

    Perhaps a guerilla campaign is in order. Why not make posters explaining the council doesn't provide areas for fly posting. So the next time someone complains they might ask why the council doesn't provide areas for fly posting...

    Something like WE CANT POST ANYWHERE SO WE POST EVERYWHERE, might be quite effective. Include a website address, with a wee webpage explaining how fly posting is the one of the only advertising local promoters/venues can afford and then explain how different initiatives have been set up in other cities. Perhaps have smaller ones at bus stops with more info on them for people to read.

    I'd say fuck getting in touch with the council. They are probably a shower of bastards with little or no respect for the music/entertainment community but advertising the plight might make it right.
  28. avatar flackmeister
    Right, this is just a though which will no doubt be shot down right and quick...

    If the City Council are actively supporting local music through the Ohyeah Project, Urban Arts and through the recent events at the Ulster Hall as well as Belsonic etc, surely there is an opportunity for someone, possibly Ohyeah or NIMIC, to invite local independent promoters, the cleansing department and the culture crowd from the council and maybe whoever is responsible at DSD, who are also throwing money about to sit in a room and see if there is an adult way of managing this?

    Because quite frankly green paint is just making it look worse, although at a guess I'd say wallpaper paste will take really well to it for future use...

    Also, why are the really big promoters flyposting for the likes of Brian Kennedy, is it the credit crunh or did they miss a whole shed load of deadlines for the Ulster Talter?

    Answers on a postcard...
  29. avatar DuncanDisorderly
    [quote:57332e1703="Steven Dedalus"][quote:57332e1703="goodonpaper"][img:57332e1703]http://img.skitch.com/20090406-xrf5ddxd9qpmu2aaf82ypsaf4b.jpg[/img:57332e1703]

    [/quote:57332e1703]

    I think it's about time the council did something about this.

    For too long have promoters been covering some of Belfast's most beautiful buildings with colourful bits of paper.

    The building in the above picture is surely the gem in Belfast's architectural crown, and one of the city's top tourist attractions.[/quote:57332e1703]


    :lol:

    at least with the posters it serves some sort of purpose. the council are all idiots too busy arguing about arbitrary matters than an actual issue. many councils have did something about this (designated areas) and it has been proven to be a success.
  30. avatar Daz
    [quote:446ed74e99="fastfude"][url=http://fastfude.org/images/misc/flyposting_interview_with_bcc.mp3]Again with the council interview from Queens Radio[/url][/quote:446ed74e99]

    Haha, it's haunting me!

    I saw the posters on my way down to work this afternoon, and was thinking the same things as most of you here. Perhaps it's time I updated that interview, perhaps with a round table chat with MLAs, the council and promoters?

    Interviews aside, I'd be interested in hearing if there is support for a forum, made up of local promoters, council and MLAs to try and resolve the issue.

    I'm open to ideas, but perhaps Oh Yeah would be willing to host a Q&A event, or something?
  31. avatar my-angel-rocks
    http://fastfude.org/topic.php?id=33436

    Arse/Elbow...
  32. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    If anyone wants to try to arrange a meeting with council representatives on this issue, i can rally a number of venue owners to talk to them. It would need influential reps though, people who are both able to discuss the issue, and actually propose reform. joe@shine.net

    At the end of the day, independent promoters aren't liable for the advertising, it's the venues. They are the ones being held accountable, and they are the ones being billed to have them taken down / painted over.

    But it's in everyones interests to try and resolve this problem.
  33. avatar Daz
    [quote:d75bc14b7f="Joeplaysthedrums"]If anyone wants to try to arrange a meeting with council representatives on this issue, i can rally a number of venue owners to talk to them. It would need influential reps though, people who are both able to discuss the issue, and actually propose reform. joe@shine.net

    At the end of the day, independent promoters aren't liable for the advertising, it's the venues. They are the ones being held accountable, and they are the ones being billed to have them taken down / painted over.

    But it's in everyones interests to try and resolve this problem.[/quote:d75bc14b7f]

    If everyone thinks a forum would be a good idea, I'd be happy to try and organise this. Perhaps a group of us should get together and get it moving?
  34. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:3eb1365ac0="Daz"][quote:3eb1365ac0="Joeplaysthedrums"]If anyone wants to try to arrange a meeting with council representatives on this issue, i can rally a number of venue owners to talk to them. It would need influential reps though, people who are both able to discuss the issue, and actually propose reform. joe@shine.net

    At the end of the day, independent promoters aren't liable for the advertising, it's the venues. They are the ones being held accountable, and they are the ones being billed to have them taken down / painted over.

    But it's in everyones interests to try and resolve this problem.[/quote:3eb1365ac0]

    If everyone thinks a forum would be a good idea, I'd be happy to try and organise this. Perhaps a group of us should get together and get it moving?[/quote:3eb1365ac0]

    Daz, just pm'd you there...
  35. avatar charlysays2
    Hi there,

    Oh Yeah would be happy to host some sort of Q&A or debate on this topic.

    If any of you have already had discussions with some of the relevant departments about this and would like to help organise it please PM or call me and we can try organise some representatives and pull this thing together.

    thanks
    Charlotte
  36. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:3029f8e5b0="charlysays2"]Hi there,

    Oh Yeah would be happy to host some sort of Q&A or debate on this topic.

    If any of you have already had discussions with some of the relevant departments about this and would like to help organise it please PM or call me and we can try organise some representatives and pull this thing together.

    thanks
    Charlotte[/quote:3029f8e5b0]

    Count me in kiddo, as per bloody usual I might add.
  37. avatar goodonpaper
    I'm there too. If I can help move anything along, let me know.
  38. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:8baa3957a4="Joeplaysthedrums"]

    At the end of the day, independent promoters aren't liable for the advertising, it's the venues. They are the ones being held accountable, and they are the ones being billed to have them taken down / painted over.

    [/quote:8baa3957a4]

    Joe, out of curiosity, what kind of money is involved, if you acn say that is...?
  39. avatar Joeplaysthedrums
    Couldn't really say on a public forum Chris, but it's pretty reasonable.

    Charlotte seems to be getting the ball rolling with this, so best emailing her with any further comments.
  40. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:03720ddf85="Joeplaysthedrums"]Couldn't really say on a public forum Chris, but it's pretty reasonable.

    Charlotte seems to be getting the ball rolling with this, so best emailing her with any further comments.[/quote:03720ddf85]

    Have done, cheers mate...!
  41. avatar charlysays2
    [quote:579d5075ad="flackmeister"][quote:579d5075ad="charlysays2"]Hi there,

    Oh Yeah would be happy to host some sort of Q&A or debate on this topic.

    If any of you have already had discussions with some of the relevant departments about this and would like to help organise it please PM or call me and we can try organise some representatives and pull this thing together.

    thanks
    Charlotte[/quote:579d5075ad]

    Count me in kiddo, as per bloody usual I might add.[/quote:579d5075ad]

    Chris you are a gent!
  42. avatar theavenue
    I'm happy they're doing this. It's a wee bit childish though, but these flyers just add to Belfast looking like a shithole. They go up and never come down. It's funny the people complaining that they can't put up their flyers for gigs that people probably won't attend anyway.

    Realistically the only flyers that should ever go up should be for bands that have pulling power and are signed/well established and even then word of mouth/advertising at ticketmaster would suffice.
  43. avatar DuncanDisorderly
    what absolute nonsense. no-one thinks they are nice looking - rather they are a necessary evil as the council wont sort out a designated area for fly posting
    (a solution that makes too much sense for them to even consider).

    in a time of economic hardship local gigs are one of the few things that is bringing people into bars - which in turn provides employment. if no-one knows when / where gigs are this could have more widespread effects than appear on the surface.
  44. avatar Deestroyer
    This has nothing to do with the dispicable campaign by the council, but just letting you know Delirium Tremens have changed their name to Green Paint.
    Oh, and here's a pic of our new logo.

    [img:effb7dec3a]http://www.build.ie/newsimages/DT%20new%20logos.jpg[/img:effb7dec3a]

    Good luck getting this sorted, no rush...
  45. avatar The_Martyr
    [img:da65cf893a]http://www.buyersmls.com/americantv/ateam/Daily%20Radar%20Feature%20-%20How%20to%20Catch%20the%20A-Team_files/han1.jpeg[/img:da65cf893a]

    Says it all, folks.
  46. avatar fastfude
    [quote:bc253f7efb="DuncanDisorderly"]local gigs are one of the few things that is bringing people into bars[/quote:bc253f7efb]That, or all the delicious booze they stock.

    I suspect the argument's always going to be about whether it's cheaper to maintain designated poster sites or just paint over the derelicts and construction hoardings once a fortnight.

    If commercial sites are adopted, a strong case for a system that doesn't price local promoters out of the game needs to be made. What is that case?
  47. avatar flackmeister
    That every other City in the known world that claims to have any kind of culture allows independent promoters to flypost in designated areas to enhance the city night life and attract tourists to locally produces independent events...

    It shouldn't have to cost anything at all, the cost would come from the savings made by not having to pay staff to remove / paint over posters, therefore freeing up their time to actually clean, and by promoters agreeing to use sites that are identified and agreed, hence the cost saving from not having to remove posters from illegall sites...

    You see, thats where it all goes wrong for the council, far too much logic...
  48. avatar mrginger
    I didnt bother reading this entire thread but in Amsterdam for example - at the corners of bridges on most of the canals, they have big giant cylindrical things, just taller than an average man and these are designated for flyposterers.

    Its reallly really effective as they are constantly full and the walls are clean and bare.

    I think instead of phoning you should be getting local promoters to group together and send a letter to request meetings with the council about this. The painting thing is ridiculous - in fact its ludicrous - waste of time, money and manpower and it makes the whole thing look terribly unsightly.

    Anywho - this has prob all been said.
  49. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:e3dd22d1eb="mrginger"]you should be getting local promoters to group together and send a letter to request meetings with the council about this.[/quote:e3dd22d1eb]

    Thats exactly what we're at, I've already been on to a friend at the city council and the soundings are good...

    Watch this space...
  50. avatar fastfude
    Here's an argument I'd like to see addressed by the council:
    ____

    Why spend rates money on unconstructive policies that have the council actually impeding the development of locally produced arts & entertainment?

    Why not invest it in a practical, accessible series of poster sites in pedestrianised and high-footfall areas (as has been successfully done in cities across Europe) where flyposting can be legitimately and tidily deployed?

    This type of approach addresses the problems of litter and defaced public property from flyposting, while providing a valuable assest to the city's local arts, entertainment, culture & tourism output.

    This would contribute to improved footfall in local venues, leading to stronger local businesses & commerce and therefore improved tax & rates revenue.

    What is there to lose?

    ____
  51. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:c847671dba="fastfude"]Here's an argument I'd like to see addressed by the council:
    ____

    Why spend rates money on unconstructive policies that have the council actually impeding the development of locally produced arts & entertainment?

    Why not invest it in a practical, accessible series of poster sites in pedestrianised and high-footfall areas (as has been successfully done in cities across Europe) where flyposting can be legitimately and tidily deployed?

    This type of approach addresses the problems of litter and defaced public property from flyposting, while providing a valuable assest to the city's local arts, entertainment, culture & tourism output.

    This would contribute to improved footfall in local venues, leading to stronger local businesses & commerce and therefore improved tax & rates revenue.

    What is there to lose?

    ____[/quote:c847671dba]

    I've just copied all that and put it into the paper I'm presenting to them, if ya don't mind...!
  52. avatar The_Martyr
    On the off-chance that the council don't know the difference between high foot-fall and relevant high-footfall, it could be wise to have pre-planned where these sites should be, like outside Queens University, etc.

    Also be armed with visual examples of what you think would work. I didn't follow Roger's previous links to those various sites across Britain, but if they have pics, it would be wise to use them. You are not dealing with creative types in this office, and that is important to bear in mind. They only care about figures at the end of the day.

    The more prepared you are, the stronger you are.

    The less that the council have to do, the more likely they will do it.
  53. avatar fastfude
    With preparation in mind, can anyone offer a counter-argument to my above post? Think of the problems before they do, and all that.
  54. avatar my-angel-rocks
    A couple of things I can think of:

    Who will be responsible for content placed in these designated areas? Currently if something offensive is put up on a flyposter the council is in the clear as it has not sanctioned it, however in a council sanctioned area does the council have a responsibilty to police the content? What would the council do if a gig for Fuck Buttons was advertised for example?

    Obviously we can see how things like this work in other cities, but I'm sure the BCC would like us to do the research.

    Is there any way to stop the big poster advertisers, Mynt, Mono etc, from being dicks and just sticking 3 posters over the area?

    What sort of space are we looking for? For example, in the Holylands currently posters are stuck onto the side of private property, opposite Citychurch/Spar which is a pretty good spot, but for that to become an official designated spot the council would have to be in talks with the landlords who I'm sure wouldn't give permission out of the kindness of their hearts. In Copenhagen there are special poster pillars, but Copenhagen also doesn't seem to have spides who like smashing things down.
  55. avatar fastfude
    Hmm, 'dunno' is my current response. More information needed on how these problems are addressed elsewhere. Derry, anyone?
  56. avatar my-angel-rocks
    It would be helpful if someone was to ask whoever is responsible from Derry council to attend whatever meeting is held, and they can answer questions from that point of view.
  57. avatar Daz
    [quote:e68c230916="my-angel-rocks"]A couple of things I can think of:

    Who will be responsible for content placed in these designated areas? Currently if something offensive is put up on a flyposter the council is in the clear as it has not sanctioned it, however in a council sanctioned area does the council have a responsibilty to police the content? What would the council do if a gig for Fuck Buttons was advertised for example?[/quote:e68c230916]
    My feeling is that the sites should be for all arts & culture promotion. If a gig for Fuck Buttons was advertised, then so what?

    [quote:e68c230916]
    Is there any way to stop the big poster advertisers, Mynt, Mono etc, from being dicks and just sticking 3 posters over the area?
    [/quote:e68c230916]
    The only way would be an agreement with the venues. A few of us will be meeting in the next couple of days to discuss how to move forward on this, and I suspect that opening a dialogue with the larger promoters will be on the agenda.

    [quote:e68c230916]
    What sort of space are we looking for? For example, in the Holylands currently posters are stuck onto the side of private property, opposite Citychurch/Spar which is a pretty good spot, but for that to become an official designated spot the council would have to be in talks with the landlords who I'm sure wouldn't give permission out of the kindness of their hearts. In Copenhagen there are special poster pillars, but Copenhagen also doesn't seem to have spides who like smashing things down.[/quote:e68c230916]

    I suspect the council will have an inital investment for a number of specific sites. The form of these are open for debate, but could be the pillars mentioned, advertising boards, etc.

    Experiences of other solutions would be helpful! :)
  58. avatar Daz
    After asking the people I work with, the general feeling is that flyposting tends to be localised to the City Centre and South Belfast. Would that be the feeling here?
  59. avatar T Entertainment
    "If a gig for Fuck Buttons was advertised, then so what?"

    Well, many, many people who are also ratepayers will be angry that they / their children / grandparents would see profanity hosted on rates-funded sites.
    In the highly unlikely event (and I do hope I am proved wrong) of progress being made to a council sponsored site, there would be no quicker way to get it closed down again.
    Whether we agree with that point of view or not. A little self censorship might go a long way.
  60. avatar Chi-Lite
    Yeah, I was just thinking that.

    It's certainly not gonna be very productive if you take that attitude to a meeting with the BCC. especially given its history on things like that.
  61. avatar blonderedhead
    In regards to the fuck buttons poster question, wouldn't it just be appropriate to stick an asterisk over the 'u' or something, just like the holy fuck poster. Problem sorted
    [img:11689e5dad]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/Desus81/Poster.jpg[/img:11689e5dad]
  62. avatar T Entertainment
    That'd be more sensible.
    I only wear my DANFERFUCKINFIELDS t-shirt at gigs and not on public display...cos out on the street it's a bit like swearing in people's faces and a lot of people really do take genuine offence.

    Re the Derry experience, there would seem no reason why such a model couldn't function in Belfast, beyond a mindset shift at BCC of which up until this point there has been no evidence whatsoever.

    I wonder when this paint is going to be applied to the mural at the bottom of Sandy Row I drove past an hour ago?
  63. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:202ef5daed="Daz"]If a gig for Fuck Buttons was advertised, then so what?[/quote:202ef5daed]

    Don't forget that these are the people you're up against:

    [quote:202ef5daed]The Vacuum controversy arose from a single complaint from a member of the public concerning "God" and "Satan" themed issues of the paper published in June 2005. Councillors reacted by describing it as "filth", claiming that it was "encouraging devil worship" and voting 24-12 to withhold an agreed funding allocation of £3,300 until an apology was provided.[/quote:202ef5daed]
  64. avatar Chi-Lite
    That was encouraging devil worship though.
  65. avatar Desus
    This topic of discussion was placed on the agenda at the last Belfast Vintners meeting, at the request of a lot of the licensed establishments who have been racking up fines. The council promised to send a representative to hear concerns etc.

    You guessed it, no one appeared.
  66. avatar T Entertainment
    They might have been getting the postering community back for the time no one termed up to see the guy from the council. :)

    You love the boul Vaccuum, Marty. You love people who write for it called Crispin Giles-Carrington.
  67. avatar Chi-Lite
    I actually do, not even slegging. I don't know how many times I've woke it with it stuffed into my jeans' hole pocket.
  68. avatar Rock Danger
    [quote:a00947330f="T Entertainment"]
    I wonder when this paint is going to be applied to the mural at the bottom of Sandy Row I drove past an hour ago?[/quote:a00947330f]

    I was surprised to see the one at Tigers Bay changed a while back, it's all positive and anti thug.

    Is the reason that the council never do anything and completely ignore all requests for designated poster blocks is because it's Belfast and no one really gives a shit?
  69. avatar fopp
    filth.
  70. avatar Daz
    I was being a bit flippant with my comment. My point was no-one should be discounted on the basis of their name, but agree a certain amount of censorship would be required.

    I don't think people should be out to offend, but if Fuck Buttons, or whoever else have been booked by a local promoter, don't they deserve the opportunity to promote their gig in the same way as everyone else?
  71. avatar T Entertainment
    Playing Devil's Advocate only slightly here, do parents not have the right to expect their children won't read the word 'fuck' in large letters on public display when they're in town? Doesn't seem unreasonable. It's just better manners / more responsible not to, IMO.
  72. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:1544154088="T Entertainment"]do parents not have the right to expect their children won't read the word 'fuck' in large letters on public display when they're in town?[/quote:1544154088]

    ... that they've paid for through their rates.
  73. avatar Daz
    [quote:cf5fdb41c8="T Entertainment"]Playing Devil's Advocate only slightly here, do parents not have the right to expect their children won't read the word 'fuck' in large letters on public display when they're in town? Doesn't seem unreasonable. It's just better manners / more responsible not to, IMO.[/quote:cf5fdb41c8]

    Fair enough... is censoring the word, as the poster above suggests, enough? Do you have to censor the whole word? Will the implication of profanity offend? Or do you just ban all profanity from gig advertising? Perhaps gig advertisers should be aiming to follow the ASA rules?
  74. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:32327a1cd6="Daz"]
    I don't think people should be out to offend, but if Fuck Buttons....[/quote:32327a1cd6]

    Seems to me that naming your band "Fuck Buttons" is already a childish attempt to offend, no harm til them.

    You see, this is gonna be a problem, if the local gig-promoting community are gonna belligerently demand the absolute right of expression, because it's [i:32327a1cd6]art[/i:32327a1cd6], man, the council are gonna be a lot less understanding
  75. avatar FaeriBex
    [quote:dbbbabc512="my-angel-rocks"]Is there any way to stop the big poster advertisers, Mynt, Mono etc, from being dicks and just sticking 3 posters over the area?
    [/quote:dbbbabc512]

    set up a register (either venue or promotor) and a poster limit. if you don't have permission or don't stick to the rules then your stuff gets torn down, simple as. a size/format limit would also be something to consider maybe?
  76. avatar Daz
    [quote:3efc3bcb19="Chi-Lite"][quote:3efc3bcb19="Daz"]
    I don't think people should be out to offend, but if Fuck Buttons....[/quote:3efc3bcb19]

    Seems to me that naming your band "Fuck Buttons" is already a childish attempt to offend, no harm til them.

    You see, this is gonna be a problem, if the local gig-promoting community are gonna belligerently demand the absolute right of expression, because it's [i:3efc3bcb19]art[/i:3efc3bcb19], man, the council are gonna be a lot less understanding[/quote:3efc3bcb19]

    Childish it is. I would recommend some sort of advertising code agreed upon by local promoters and the council, which would censor potentially offensive material - eg. if I booked Fuck Buttons, advertising material would read "F*#k Buttons" etc.
  77. avatar Chi-Lite
    Spot on. Of course the difficulty would be in agreeing such a code that wasn't just mad.

    Remember all the furore about a few Scratch Perverts posters?

    But aye, surely a F*ck would do the job
  78. avatar PocketPromise
    possibly a daft suggestion, but if catering for all gigs / promoters in small spaces is a problem, perhaps one of those screens can be built into a couple of the more high profile "poster booths" - Just rotating constantly through JPGs of all the posters of what's coming up.

    like the useless tourism screen thingys only.. more useful?

    I know it too expensive and someone will smash the protective screen (that protects the screen from vandals), or someone will ironically paint green paint over it.

    but just a suggestion..
    (joe)
  79. avatar T Entertainment
    Nah, just stick an asterisk in there, sure.
    Jesus, I swear like a trooper but I wouldn't do ever do it in front of my Ma, or kids or the elderly. Sticking up posters with an enormous '[b:dbe68f8d71]FUCK[/b:dbe68f8d71]' on them all over town is going to cause a lot of offence and annoyance to completely reasonable, dead-on people.
    It's not about free speech, it's about doing the right thing.

    I had this argument over a Dangerf*ckinfields poster once and lost. I was wincing when I saw it.

    And away from first principles, no one is going to get anywhere with the council if an absolute right to put up whatever is deemed necessary in the name of artistic freedom is insisted on.
  80. avatar Gogs
    Isn't this a pretty minor point, like?

    How many bands actually have swear words in their name? Holy Fuck, Fuck Buttons, Fucked Up, Shitmat, Shitdisco. That's all I can think of. Quite a small percentage of the total number of musical acts in the world, I'd say.

    Anyway, I'd say an asterisk solves the problem pretty simply.

    OR.... you're just not allowed to advertise bands with offensive names on these sites. Realistically, people who like these bands are going to be "cool" enough to know how to use the internet to find out about these gigs anyway.
  81. avatar tinpot anto
    [quote:b3df55e085]
    How many bands actually have swear words in their name? Holy Fuck, Fuck Buttons, Fucked Up, Shitmat, Shitdisco. That's all I can think of. Quite a small percentage of the total number of musical acts in the world, I'd say. [/quote:b3df55e085]

    they're all f*cking sh1t though that's the real shame.

    Anal Cunt though, that's a band ;0
  82. avatar T Entertainment
    Yeah, it's a side issue - I think the point is that a little give and take may be required in the not insubstantial task of persuading the council to move from their current position of obliterating gig posters to sponsoring offical poster sites - and that not insisting on the right to have [size=24:8509336fe9]THE CUNTKNOCKERS [/size:8509336fe9]in letters six feet tall on them may be part of the give required on the music community's side. :D
  83. avatar goodonpaper
    [quote:829c1d6f0d]"I refer to your enquiry regarding the Council's use of paint to obliterterate posters which have been displayed illegally.

    The display of fly-posters is an illegal activity which is enforced by the Planning Authority. The Council anticipate new enforcement powers which should help to control the level of fly-posting within the city with the enactment of the Clean Neighbourhoods legislation within the next two years. In the interim, the Council has the power to either remove or obliterate illegally displayed posters. To date the removal of the Notices is both a costly and time consuming exercise and comes at a cost to the rate payer.

    The obliteration of the notices negates costly removal and as you point out, they are replaced with new posters within a very short period of time.
    The issue of designated poster site provisions within Belfast has been explored, however, due to legal complexities, the Council could not progress this matter. I would also advise that formalized sites have been trialed in other UK cities but there is insufficient evidence to suggest that they eradicate the problem.

    In summary, the Council is responding to an issue which ultimately does affect the visual attractiveness of the city but could be prevented by those businesses and promoters engaged in fly-posting if they were committed to local environmental quality issues and the appearance of their city."

    Please also be aware that Belfast City Council would also act on requests from residents of Belfast in relation to the removal of these posters. [/quote:829c1d6f0d]
  84. avatar T Entertainment
    "I would also advise that formalized sites have been trialed in other UK cities but there is insufficient evidence to suggest that they eradicate the problem."

    This I have heard about. The problem is that the more aggressive promoters (we all know who they are in Belfast and they don't post here) continue as before. They're not scared of the current restrictions and would probably dominate legal sites like they do on the current unofficial ones, while continuing to fly post everywhere they currently do.

    The legal complexities seems like a red herring tho - one assumes this hurdle was cleared successfully in every other city this has operated. One also assumes BCC has legal advice proportionate to the size of its huge operation and could call upon that to establish the legal issues. Or perhaps they did and a team of top lawyers were just left scratching their heads, going 'Jesus, I just CAN'T work this one out! It's simply TOO COMPLEX!'
    :?
  85. avatar fastfude
    well, the paint scheme is working well. OH WAIT IT ISN'T:

    [img:a676e01dd5]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/3424621726_0b6c739b2d.jpg[/img:a676e01dd5]

    Low-tech arms race anyone?
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  86. avatar fastfude
    [quote:f66595c4de="T Entertainment"]"I would also advise that formalized sites have been trialed in other UK cities but there is insufficient evidence to suggest that they eradicate the problem."[/quote:f66595c4de]

    Eradication is not the objective - no scheme can guarantee 100% compliance, just ask, er, the council. However, if the promoters who currently only flyposter in the absence of any legit medium all migrate to legal poster sites, the situation will improve considerably.

    Could enforcement via this "Clean Neighbourhoods act" thing not mop up the handful of persistent offenders while everyone else takes advantage of a useful resource that benefits the city and its cultural output in many different ways?
  87. avatar T Entertainment
    Yeah, it's basically another red herring, in our terms: but from the council's perspective such a project would not have the desired outcome (an end to widespread flyposting), ergo: they shall not spend money on it.
    You would need to convince them that the 'cultural value' of designated sites is worth the financial outlay, given that they believe from other examples the blokes with the green paint will remain in business, despite their introduction.
    And that is, to say the least, a bit of a psychological mountain to lead them up and over and into the valleys beyond.

    The sort of enforcement you're talking about which would, in the council's terms, end the problem of illegal flyposting by hammering anyone who doesn't use the legal sites does not appear to be on the cards.
    Maybe it is, like. But I really don't think that two-pronged approach is on BCC's radar. Or in the same galaxy that the radar (with coverage of 500 yards) resides.

    I genuinely don't mean to sound deliberately defeatist on this, btw. But for there to be any chance whatsoever of progress, all the angles need to be explored.
  88. avatar FaeriBex
    [quote:b84ac0eb5b="fastfude"]well, the paint scheme is working well. OH WAIT IT ISN'T:

    [img:b84ac0eb5b]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/3424621726_0b6c739b2d.jpg[/img:b84ac0eb5b]

    Low-tech arms race anyone?[/quote:b84ac0eb5b]

    ahaha love it, well done team fresh!
  89. avatar gl2200
    [quote:c360de8ce7="T Entertainment"]I had this argument over a Dangerf*ckinfields poster once and lost. [/quote:c360de8ce7]

    A [i:c360de8ce7]Dangerf*ckinfields[/i:c360de8ce7] poster is no Jobbykrust/Bleeding Rectum [i:c360de8ce7]Daniel O'Donnell Must Die[/i:c360de8ce7] tour poster.
  90. avatar HorseFacePromotions
    This whole arguement on the fly postering topic may be very idealistic, and it is a way that the music scene can stand up for their rights in belfast,...

    HOWever, can anyone really, honestly say that flypostering really works, there have been some gigs that i have seen, that have been advertised through flypostering to the hilt yet they get about 10 people through the door,...

    and then theres other gigs which have been runours, word-of-mouth sort of gigs and they're fucking packed, which leads you to start thinking whether it is really worth it.

    Another thing that was mentioned earlier was the 'aggressive promoters'... this is an issue which plagues small promoters, and is the rule of thumb for the promoters who can afford full colour posters the size of a door,...I watched a man put up three huge posters (full colour gloss ones), that completly obscurred about 80 small promoters posters on the lisburn road,...these were posters for events taking place in the Odyssey.....

    Why do the odyssey need to do fly postering when they have access to legal forms of advertising in the form of the huge billboards just down the road.

    These are just my thoughts on the matter, and i believe there will be the same tactics taken on designated sites if they were ever to be constructed, unlikely, but a possibility, and a more facilities must be provided by the venues themselves.... Lavery's do their gig listings, but i dont think thats enough, if they had a moving LCD screen (those long screens that have a message scrolling from right to left that you get for the back window of a caravan) and put that screen above the door of the bar

    [b:b33f207639]I am only stating my observations and believe that argueing with the council will be a futile attempt at justifying what they believe is littering,...but how can it be littering if i put the poster on a bin[/b:b33f207639]?
  91. avatar Danny Lynch
    on bbc2 now on stormont live. i think... nearly over but
  92. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:bbb5d8f11f="HorseFacePromotions"]
    Another thing that was mentioned earlier was the 'aggressive promoters'... this is an issue which plagues small promoters, and is the rule of thumb for the promoters who can afford full colour posters the size of a door,...I watched a man put up three huge posters (full colour gloss ones), that completly obscurred about 80 small promoters posters on the lisburn road,...these were posters for events taking place in the Odyssey.....

    These are just my thoughts on the matter, and i believe there will be the same tactics taken on designated sites if they were ever to be constructed, unlikely, but a possibility, and a more facilities must be provided by the venues themselves....

    [b:bbb5d8f11f]I am only stating my observations and believe that argueing with the council will be a futile attempt at justifying what they believe is littering,...but how can it be littering if i put the poster on a bin[/b:bbb5d8f11f]?[/quote:bbb5d8f11f]

    I really believe that there is room for movement at the council, in the last number of years about 15 major cities across the UK have set up legal sites that by an large work. There is agreement that small promoters aren't pushed out and all the local promoters agree on how the sites are managed, except those that are run by a major company, those have ended in faliure...

    I reckon we should gove it a go, I've spoken to some council boffins I know and they reckon we're on to a good thing...

    http://fastfude.org/topic.php?id=33932

    It couldn't do any harm to have a chat eh?
  93. avatar isis
    The whole fandango with the council painting over the posters has really got my goat and I came up with an idea.

    The Council have put more money into the musical heritage of this country with things like music tours, after research showed one of the main reason tourists travel to somewhere is because of the music of that place. So....

    If musicians go on strike for one month the taxi industry would suffer, the hospitality industrry would suffer, tourism would suffer. So why are these musicians, who are achieving a postive thing for this country not allowed to advertise their gigs when their coundil are advertising them?

    If I place this complaint with the council would any musicians be prepared to strike for a designated place to advertise their gigs or have I just gone a wee bit too suffrigette?
  94. avatar fastfude
    A strike would require universal support to work. Have you consulted the MU?

    Also, you'd need to show them some hard evidence that it really would affect tourism and not just speculate that it might. Again, maybe the MU can help there.
  95. avatar isis
    Sorry, who are the MU?
  96. avatar flackmeister
    Strike?

    Seriously?

    The council wouln't give a hoot, quite frankly.

    Why is it that complaints get 300 pages of comments but positive ideas get, well, none...?

    Surely working with the council and finding a responsible approach is more useful, one that can save them money in the long run, help grow the scene by ensuring that gigs are well advertised and attended...

    http://fastfude.org/topic.php?id=33932

    I truly believe we might even stand a chance of getting somewhere and there are a number of fairly highly placed Council folk who agree...
  97. avatar flackmeister
    Our MLA's speak...

    With on only one mention of music...

    - - - - - - - -

    Mr Lunn asked the Minister for Regional Development for an update on his policy in relation to fly-posting.

    (AQO 2490/09)

    [b:9169bfa7df]The Minister for Regional Development:[/b:9169bfa7df] The responsibility for regulating the display of advertisements, including fly-posting, falls to the Department of the Environment. However, inappropriate outdoor advertising has the potential to impact significantly on road safety and the environment.

    Under the Roads (Northern Ireland) Order 1993, my Department’s Roads Service has the power to remove unlawful advertising signs from within the curtilage of the public road. The implementation of that policy, together with successful prosecutions, has resulted in a reduction in the number of unlawful advertising signs being erected within the public road boundaries, especially in the Belfast area.

    Roads Service regularly removes fly-posters from its traffic signals, street lighting and cabinets.

    Although district councils have no statutory duty to remove such posters, they have the power of removal.

    I understand that some councils have requested that that statutory duty be included in the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act, the enactment of which is programmed for 2011.

    [b:9169bfa7df]Mr Lunn:[/b:9169bfa7df] I thank the Minister for his answer. He will be aware of the public perception that Roads Service is inclined to prosecute easy targets and to ignore the more difficult cases. A [b:9169bfa7df]church[/b:9169bfa7df] that is advertising a car boot sale is liable to get fined before something more sinister is addressed. The Minister mentioned the Roads (Northern Ireland) Order 1993. Does the Minister agree that, in the future, the removal of fly-posters should be the responsibility of the district councils, to which he referred?

    [b:9169bfa7df]The Minister for Regional Development:[/b:9169bfa7df] I do not agree with the suggestion that Roads Service targets easy prey. It is unlikely that sinister advertising will have a name attached to it or that the name of the individual who has responsibility for its display will be included. Not only are people putting up directional signs, but they are putting up signs that are advertising their businesses or promotions.

    That is not the purpose of road signage. It is supposed to be to assist someone to find a place on the last step of his or her journey; it is not intended to replace other directional information. People are now putting signs up that advertise events, their business or some kind of promotion.

    When such signs impinge on road safety, Roads Service has a responsibility to take them down and fine those involved. I recently met some MLAs, and we discussed the issue with particular reference to rural businesses. I accept that there is a need to discuss the policy and to talk to business organisations.

    The proliferation of business signs sometimes becomes unsightly, especially in the countryside — I am more familiar with the border area —and it has a detrimental impact on our ability to present this place as a green land that is attractive to tourists.

    There is an opportunity, and perhaps an obligation, to address the issue. [b:9169bfa7df]I have undertaken to talk to Roads Service about that and to talk to business organisations about trying to manage the issue better[/b:9169bfa7df].

    That way, we should not end up fining some of the charitable people who want to provide some useful and charitable service or event and we can deal in some way with the increasing proliferation of signs along the roads.

    [b:9169bfa7df]Mr Kennedy:[/b:9169bfa7df] I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. Has he formed any view as to whether he is minded to heed the representations made by those in local government who seek greater powers over fly-posting?

    [b:9169bfa7df]The Minister for Regional Development:[/b:9169bfa7df] My general approach to that issue is to transfer to local government as many powers as is sensible. Obviously, the discussions about the review of public administration (RPA) have not concluded. I know that during Holy Week, in the lead up to Easter, there were further discussions about the detail of the powers that will transfer, and those discussions have yet to be concluded. As I said, my general approach has been to be supportive if local councils feel that they want to exercise certain powers, and if it makes sense for those powers to transferred. I do not see any reason to stand in the way of that.

    [b:9169bfa7df]Mr P Ramsey:[/b:9169bfa7df] I welcome the Minister’s comments on the issue. It is a hugely important matter that affects many towns, cities and rural areas. Fly-posting is a blight on many communities. The implementation of effective legislation is necessary, and that should be done in conjunction with the Department of the Environment. The only way to deal with the serial offenders that we are talking about — [b:9169bfa7df]the nightclub owners and others who consistently abuse the law[/b:9169bfa7df] — is to take them to court and fine them. That would act as a deterrent.

    [b:9169bfa7df]The Minister for Regional Development:[/b:9169bfa7df] I accept what the Member says. There is an increasing number of signs, and they become unsightly and are damaging to the environment. They also damage our ability to promote ourselves. However, during what are difficult economic times, we have to strike a balance when going after businesses, fining people and taking the signs down.

    There are also resource implications for Roads Service when its workers actually go out and take the signs down and then have to chase up businesses to fine them per sign. There is a need for a discussion about the issue, because businesses obviously have a need to provide some sort of directional signage. Some of them do that, particularly in rural areas. However, there is a difference between that and advertising.

    At one stage, protocols were agreed. That was certainly the case with estate agents, who probably use signs more than any other businesses, particularly on Roads Service equipment. Those protocols had some effect, but that seems to have drifted.

    [b:9169bfa7df]It is time for another discussion with business organisations — both rural and urban — about signage and what we can do about it.[/b:9169bfa7df]
  98. avatar isis
    is that me told?
  99. avatar flackmeister
    Good God no, don't think that, I just reckon a positive response is better, the council get all childish with their green paint and we take the high road and offer them a solution, thats all, no offense intended!
  100. avatar isis
    None taken. Think everyone is coming up with solutions to this. The simple one is just a dedicated poster space I suppose.

    Can we sit in on any of the council meetings? How do we get our say with the politicians?
  101. avatar ohyeahbelfast.com
    [quote:768dffc01e="isis"]None taken. Think everyone is coming up with solutions to this. The simple one is just a dedicated poster space I suppose.

    Can we sit in on any of the council meetings? How do we get our say with the politicians?[/quote:768dffc01e]

    You're unlikely to actually want to sit in on council committee meetings but ohyeahbelfast are having a meet up to see what we can come up with, something that isn't green paint, so please feel free to come along...

    See hear: http://fastfude.org/topic.php?id=33932
  102. avatar flackmeister
    [quote:f81c75d1fc="isis"] The simple one is just a dedicated poster space I suppose. [/quote:f81c75d1fc]

    I think the Ohyeah meeting is a good place to start, but we need to convince the council that by planning, applying for permission, paying and managing the legal sites that it will still save them money in the long term...

    We can certainly make the process easy by giving them ideas and thinking about it from their perspective before we start, we just need to be wise about it!
  103. avatar fastfude
    [quote:37214d0f9e="Councillor Michael Browne, chairman of the councils Development Committee"]The council is committed to helping support the development of the creative industries in our city which, if nurtured and supported in the right way, have the ability to make Belfast truly competitive on the global stage.

    The council`s creative industries strategy, `Creative Belfast`, is designed to support those working in the fields of film, music, digital media and design achieve their true economic and creative potential.[/quote:37214d0f9e]
    http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/news/news.asp?id=1653
  104. avatar fastfude
    also, some tiny interaction via Twitter:

    http://twitter.com/cooki2222/status/1637329944

    http://twitter.com/belfastcc/status/1648566210

    http://twitter.com/Junap/status/1648829752

    no response to my last one though...
  105. avatar my-angel-rocks
    Although I'm sure this comedy gold has been highlighted before I feel a need to repost it to make everyone chuckle or cry

    [quote:60ece0f8f3]Flyposting is unattractive and attracts other problems to an area, such as graffiti and litter[/quote:60ece0f8f3]
    (http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/brighterbelfast/flyposting.asp)

    Whereas slapping green/grey paint over posters or ripping them down and leaving paper scrappings all over the street looks ...?
  106. avatar anty2
    ok I dont want to sound silly here but they just said its a road safety issue having posters near a public road? If so how does putting paint over them help the removal?

    If my point isnt valid I agree with the guy above me, it looks hideous
  107. avatar thecomeons_2
    bill posters is innocent.











    sorry. just had to say it.
  108. avatar fastfude
    [quote:fc72e68413]Belfast City Council's policy of painting over fly-posters with thick paint is "almost spiteful", a music promoter has said.[/quote:fc72e68413]
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8093030.stm
  109. avatar daveshorty
    jesus, this is pretty much crippling.
    we put up about 150 posters last night and i've seen one left intact the very next morning.
  110. avatar tinpot anto
    If music posters are an eyesore, and not a valued and vibrant part of the urban environment can anyone explain why both Eastenders and Corrie spend money have people design fake gig posters and stick them up in the background of their sets?
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  111. avatar daveshorty
    has anyone formulated any alternative means of advertising gigs? where would be good places that would let you leave flyers, with a lot of footfall?
  112. avatar The Stav
    [img:6d9a49c5d1]http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu352/stavorano/th_DSC00439.jpg[/img:6d9a49c5d1]
  113. avatar feline1
    lol, I'm *SURE* putting black paint on pleasant light grey Georgian stonework violates planning regulations,
    if you scenesters weren't so busy installing moats and duck-islands in your Hamyln Mansions, you could be sueing the Council's SprayingBlackPaint Department and shopping them to the Council's Planning Department.
  114. avatar kilroy
    My first post!
    [quote:d27aa72b23="daveshorty"]has anyone formulated any alternative means of advertising gigs? where would be good places that would let you leave flyers, with a lot of footfall?[/quote:d27aa72b23]

    Hi daveshorty. Yes is the short answer to that. At the minute I'm working on a project to provide exactly that. Groundwork has been ongoing for a few months now, but because things are still developing I can't say too much more just yet - sorry.
    All I can say at the moment is that it will provide the alternative you talked about.
    When I can say more I'll keep fastfude informed - sorry about the cloak and dagger.
  115. avatar fastfude
    a BBC plot, eh? http://beta.fastfude.org/comment_ip.php?id=312219
  116. avatar daveshorty
    [quote:21ecba1cdf="kilroy"][quote:21ecba1cdf="daveshorty"]has anyone formulated any alternative means of advertising gigs? where would be good places that would let you leave flyers, with a lot of footfall?[/quote:21ecba1cdf]

    Hi daveshorty. Yes is the short answer to that. At the minute I'm working on a project to provide exactly that. Groundwork has been ongoing for a few months now, but because things are still developing I can't say too much more just yet - sorry.
    All I can say at the moment is that it will provide the alternative you talked about.
    When I can say more I'll keep fastfude informed - sorry about the cloak and dagger.[/quote:21ecba1cdf]

    hmmm sounds interesting. any idea when this alternative might be up and running?
  117. avatar kilroy
    Start of next year probably. It wont be the complete solution, but I'm hoping it will be an alternative outlet for many.
  118. avatar Andrew
    I contacted Belfast City Council about the ongoing silliness and here's what I got in reply:

    [i:ccb43913fd]"I refer to your enquiry regarding the Council's use of paint to obliterterate posters which have been displayed illegally.

    "The display of fly-posters is an illegal activity which is enforced by the Planning Authority. The Council anticipate new enforcement powers which should help to control the level of fly-posting within the city with the enactment of the Clean Neighbourhoods legislation within the next two years. In the interim, the Council has the power to either remove or obliterate illegally displayed posters. To date the removal of the Notices is both a costly and time consuming exercise and comes at a cost to the rate payer.

    "The obliteration of the notices negates costly removal and as you point out, they are replaced with new posters within a very short period of time.

    "The issue of designated poster site provisions within Belfast has been explored, however, due to legal complexities, the Council could not progress this matter. I would also advise that formalized sites have been trialed in other UK cities but there is insufficient evidence to suggest that they eradicate the problem.

    "In summary, the Council is responding to an issue which ultimately does affect the visual attractiveness of the city but could be prevented by those businesses and promoters engaged in fly-posting if they were committed to local environmental quality issues and the appearance of their city.

    "Please also be aware that Belfast City Council would also act on requests from residents of Belfast in relation to the removal of these posters."[/i:ccb43913fd]
  119. avatar the fly
    My first post!
    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lqAXUHcQu98&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lqAXUHcQu98&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
  120. avatar the fly
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAXUHcQu98

    watch this video and pass on the url to any body concern about this issue fly postering does not divide our communities unlike the murals the flags the racist graffiti none of which belfast city council paint over not to mention the polictians posters covering every corner of Belfast, this city belongs to us all.belfast Belfast
  121. avatar T Entertainment
    That sure is something.
  122. avatar fastfude
    [quote:1dbd4c8726="Andrew"]"In summary, the Council is responding to an issue which ultimately does affect the visual attractiveness of the city but could be prevented by those businesses and promoters engaged in fly-posting if they were committed to local environmental quality issues and the appearance of their city.[/quote:1dbd4c8726]
    Their comments repeatedly give the impression that they think flypostering is just done for nuisance value and would people please just stop it. Have they considered that this is a symptom of the lack of any other effective broad, public promotional tools for Belfast's live music and clubs? There are methods they could help with that don't harm 'the visual attractiveness of the city'.

    They have a leadership role to play in this, but clearly don't want to. Until they take a more positive stance and engage with the stakeholders for a mutually beneficial solution, I can't see the problem being resolved.
  123. avatar Chi-Lite
    Whoever made that video is a pack of self-important wankdogs though.

    It's our culture we're making, it's our expression.

    Away and make your fucking culture and express yourself on your own fucking property.

    this has no real bearing on my opinion of flypostering, just something about those pricks in that video wound me up. Like it's their hyuamn right to like, tell the people about their shitty wee gig somewhere by plastering it all over Belfast. Fuck away aff
  124. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:8b3fc2c534="fastfude"]They have a leadership role to play in this, but clearly don't want to. Until they take a more positive stance and engage with the stakeholders for a mutually beneficial solution, I can't see the problem being resolved.[/quote:8b3fc2c534]

    Indeed, their fingers in the ears attitude when people point out flaws and hypocrisies in their current "solution" does lead me to agree that it is malicious rather than an attempt to get it to stop.

    Has anyone actually managed to open a dialogue with them, rather than just getting fobbed off with the same pre-printed form letter. It would be good if a local journalist (and I'm not just referring to Andrew here) was to push a little harder and get better answers to the questions. IE, how can you argue that you're making the city a more beautiful place, by slapping some ugly paint everywhere? What legal issues are there that other cities around the world have solved, but the brilliant legal minds of Belfast City Council are find too difficult? The poster pillars are not implemented because "there is insufficient evidence to suggest that they eradicate the problem." but from the Councils' own admissions pulling down or painting over does not eradicate the problem either, so why do they persist?

    To be honest, my suspicion is that they are delaying any movement on this issue because once they get the new enforcement powers that they are anticipating, they can get a lot more money from fines.
  125. avatar The enfant terrible
    Basically, fly postering is a form of advertising, and it's a fucksite less offensive or unpleasant to look at than all the shite advertising going on around the city on billboards and sticking pictures of polititians up as well.

    The only difference is the other people pay the council and the council approves the shit or tells the billboard people to take it down to fuck. So this issue is all about control. The Greys and 2012. Question everything.
  126. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:c9399736a7="The enfant terrible"]So this issue is all about control.[/quote:c9399736a7]

    Except the flyposterers have offered the council the possibility to have that control by asking the council to provide poster sites, and the council have refused to do anything about it. So rather than control or power, I think it just comes down to the money, they anticipate they can make more money from fining people in two years time than they can make from revenue from people using designated postering sites.
  127. avatar T Entertainment
    Marty, you're just another sign that 'the hate for the youth will always last'! :D

    That video is possibly the rarest thing I have ever looked at.

    It certainly contributes absolutely nothing to an adult debate about actually sorting this out.
    Last edited on , 2 times in total.
  128. avatar comprachio
    I'd imagine that the argument that the paint is uglier than posters will be swiftly countered with the response that it is to discourage people from postering by making it a pointless exercise. No doubt they'll have an 'expert' who will assert that the short term blight caused by painting over posters will in the long term discourage postering...

    Whilst I don't agree with that line of thinking in the slightest, I can see there is a rational to it.
  129. avatar Deestroyer
    Lets paint over the election posters during the next council campaign. At least it'll be a few less of their unsightly bakes to look at.
  130. avatar glitxysadie
    ...and you'd probably get arrested for doing it,which is what happened my friend when he ripped one off a lampost.i think that its ridiculous that the council are paying people to go round and paint over harmless posters that in my opinion actually add a bit of character to the city.Like if you were a tourist over here and saw local bands etc advertised you may be encouraged to go.(really ineloquent)but ye know what i mean
  131. avatar Chi-Lite
    See the more I think about it, I'm actually thinking fuck it, why should you be allowed to paste a load of posters all over the town?

    I don't think they give the town character. Or if they do, it's a desperately stinking oul downmarket character.

    Belfast is actually pretty nice, there's loads of nice buildings and streets. A load of crappy posters for some more-likely-than-not shite gig really messes the place up and makes it look like Albert Square.

    Has no one ever thought that maybe there's something wrong if the only way you can get people to go to your gig is by plastering the town with posters?

    It just strikes me that that method isn't used for any other form of entertainment or leisure that I can think of, yet people seem to be able to find out about things. You know, like, things that they like.

    Why are local gigs such a special case that the only possible way people will ever hear of them is by seeing a half-ripped poster on the windows of the old Burger King on the Dublin Road. Lot of oul ballix, paint over them until the wee wankers stop putting them up.

    Fuck the lot of ye in advance.
  132. avatar fastfude
    [quote:c5b6cbbac8]It just strikes me that that method is used for pretty much no other form of entertainment or l;eisure that i know of[/quote:c5b6cbbac8]

    [img:c5b6cbbac8]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2521/3680852655_cbec4af2f0.jpg[/img:c5b6cbbac8]
  133. avatar The enfant terrible
    I might not like looking at them but I don't like looking at a lot of shite the council lets stay like big fuck off ads that suck balls. They're only there because people can afford to pay for them. Someone starting up a gig can't afford to pay for that.

    Plus since they're happy to put up posters for Spandau Ballet and other assorted pish then they're quite happy to promote music.

    Plus allowing a designated space for promotion is not having control. It would be control if the council got to approve what posters were allowed to be put up. Many of these gigs are the first step towards a lot of kids becoming asshole punks or high school drop outs and the council does not want that.
  134. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:6d78b7b4e5="fastfude"][quote:6d78b7b4e5]It just strikes me that that method is used for pretty much no other form of entertainment or l;eisure that i know of[/quote:6d78b7b4e5]

    [img:6d78b7b4e5]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2521/3680852655_cbec4af2f0.jpg[/img:6d78b7b4e5][/quote:6d78b7b4e5]

    Ah, fair enough.

    Can't people find out about these things on the internets like normals?

    Fuck them, I don't want to see big posters of circuses either, all over my nice city.
  135. avatar fastfude
    In an unregulated state, postering will always look like fuck all, no matter how good the individual designs are.

    That said, the abandoned hulk of the old Shaftesbury DHSS building, Dublin Road, Gt Victoria Street, and most of the other wastelands of Belfast that end up being postered are a hideous eyesore, posters or no posters, so I think that excuse is a bit of an over-flogged dead horse.

    The wastelands and derelict buildings were there first, they didn't end up that way because they got postered upon.
  136. avatar SweetDickWilly
    Posters are good for creating a buzz around bands, not necessarily their gigs. If you see a bands name enough times over a period of time you'll remember it. People are more inclined to go to gigs were they've heard of a band. Gig posters serve a purpose even if it is just to get your bands name out into the mass-conciousness. I'd rather see gig posters in my home town than billboards with cosmetics ads and "celebrity" endorsed products and all that other pish.
  137. avatar Chi-Lite
    Nah, i don't want to see them. they look like shite.

    As for direlict buildings, no one is suggesting that postering made the building direlict. But it could just possibly marginally discourage any development, ya know. If you're looking a big building to develop, all else being equal you'd pick the one that doesn't look likwe fly-postering mecca
  138. avatar fastfude
    I seriously doubt any developer has ever been put off a multi-million pound construction plan because of a few sheets of coloured paper stuck to the hoardings.
  139. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:e188ad42a6="fastfude"]I seriously doubt any developer has ever been put off a multi-million pound construction plan because of a few sheets of coloured paper stuck to the hoardings.[/quote:e188ad42a6]

    aye, you're right there too like. But it brings down the general tone of the area...which is an intangible, though important, factor, if you're a developer.

    You're not really playing the long game with me here Rog.
  140. avatar SweetDickWilly
    We're talking about Belfast here, if we can come from having buildings destroyed in the troubles to having brand new buildings, appartment blocks sprouting up everywhere and generally a much better looking city then I think developers would need more than posters to make them think twice about doing their job. Maybe if there was some dogshit on the footpath........
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  141. avatar fastfude
    I'm just wondering how you can bring the tone of Gt Victoria Street down any lower than it already is!
  142. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:b91ae229aa]Belfast is actually pretty nice, there's loads of nice buildings and streets. A load of crappy posters for some more-likely-than-not shite gig really messes the place up and makes it look like Albert Square.

    Has no one ever thought that maybe there's something wrong if the only way you can get people to go to your gig is by plastering the town with posters?[/quote:b91ae229aa]
    I know you like being argumentative and contrary for the sake of it, but a few threads ago you were posting about how "hate" made you "feel sick". That's some pretty hateful stuff right there. As a member of a band that plays a lot of gigs in Belfast and is on the occasional poster, I'd say that shit is just rude, and offensive to a lot of users of this site.
    I've heard from the horses mouth that, like it or not, posters are still the most effective way to promote a gig. But if you think everyone playing in the local scene is so shit, I'm not surprised you'd prefer gray walls to posters.
    Gigs need to be promoted in prominent public places. The internetz aren't effective enough yet. No one is putting up posters for a laugh.
  143. avatar Chi-Lite
    Fuck sake calm yourself would ye.

    I'm interested in who "the horses mouth" is?

    Some punter who once went to a gig after seeing a poster?

    Don't be getting all persecuted, I'm only saying I think posters on a wall make a place look shit, I'm not saying I hate you or your band. Come on but brothers, there must be a better way than ruining our surroundings here.

    They do look fucking shit, don't they but. Even the one's I was putting up a few years back, with a big giant picture of Geno Washington. they still look shit on the walls of a city. And even if you think Great Victoria Street looks shite already, they're certainly not helping.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  144. avatar Deestroyer
    The 'horses mouth' is one of the biggest promoters/venues in Belfast. I was shocked myself that it is still such an important factor, but apparently it is.
    Fly postering does look like shite. I don't think anyone denies that. The problem is that when you're (the council) formulating policy on matters such as these, it's never a good idea to just ban something outright and hope it goes away. Fly postering happens because there is a need for it. An alternative outlet is then required and there isn't one, yet the need hasn't gone away = illegal fly posting.
  145. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:dd95bee6d8="Deestroyer"]The 'horses mouth' is one of the biggest promoters/venues in Belfast. I was shocked myself that it is still such an important factor, but apparently it is.
    Fly postering does look like shite. I don't think anyone denies that. The problem is that when you're (the council) formulating policy on matters such as these, it's never a good idea to just ban something outright and hope it goes away. Fly postering happens because there is a need for it. An alternative outlet is then required and there isn't one, yet the need hasn't gone away = illegal fly posting.[/quote:dd95bee6d8]

    Fair enough...I'm not saying the council is right like. But, if, as you admit, an alternative must be found, shouldn't it be up to promoters to find it?

    Why should the council provide such an outlet? These aren't council events, it has no obligation to HELP people to ADVERTISE them.

    The only obligation it has is to look after its property and prevent illegal posters from making the place look like shite.

    An alternative probably is needed. So go and find one. You're the one playing all the gigs. Why should the council help you find an alternative to doing something ILLEGAL??

    Go and buy the big screen on Shaftesbury Square.

    the problem with that is, even when there is an alternative, advertising costs money, and people would rather do it illegally on the cheap. Like buying cheap diesel, or fly dumping rather than hiring a skip.
  146. avatar SweetDickWilly
    Let's get a big flood light and use it for shining gig info into the night sky, kinda like the one in "Batman" flicks
  147. avatar Chi-Lite
    Now that would be good.

    Problem is, ASIWYFA and the Panama Kings would only get bigger lights and shine everybody else out. Oh, and the Answer
  148. avatar Deestroyer
    The council is there as much to facilitate as it is to make rules, and your description is hardly the sum total of the council's obligations.
    Is it not a bit sad that if the council appeases all the developers and keeps the town sterile clean then its job is done?
  149. avatar SweetDickWilly
    I was thinking of shaving my bands Myspace address on every dog I see, maybe a PR too if I can persuade my mates Boxer to stay still long enough.
  150. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:1a08c10406="Chi-Lite"][quote:1a08c10406="Deestroyer"]The problem is that when you're (the council) formulating policy on matters such as these, it's never a good idea to just ban something outright and hope it goes away. Fly postering happens because there is a need for it. An alternative outlet is then required and there isn't one, yet the need hasn't gone away = illegal fly posting.[/quote:1a08c10406]

    [quote:1a08c10406]An alternative probably is needed. So go and find one. You're the one playing all the gigs. Why should the council help you find an alternative to doing something ILLEGAL??[/quote:1a08c10406][/quote:1a08c10406]
    The council banned it - it's never a good idea to just ban something outright and hope it goes away. Fly postering happens because there is a need for it. An alternative outlet is then required and there isn't one, yet the need hasn't gone away = illegal fly posting.
  151. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:c462d208db="Deestroyer"]The council is there as much to facilitate as it is to make rules, and your description is hardly the sum total of the council's obligations.[/quote:c462d208db]

    Hold on, the function of a council is not to assist people to advertise privately-funded profit-making events.

    We had the NI Events company to do that, and they just shafted the lot of us.


    [quote:c462d208db]Is it not a bit sad that if the council appeases all the developers and keeps the town sterile clean then its job is done?[/quote:c462d208db]

    No. I expect the council to keep the town clean rather than to facilitate people messing it up for their own profit, by illegally advertising money-making events and making the place look like shite. That's the exact opposite of what the council is supposed to do.


    I'd love to see the dog-shaving though. I will go to every gig i ever see advertised on a dog. And that's a promise.
  152. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:e9be57a928="fastfude"][quote:e9be57a928]It just strikes me that that method is used for pretty much no other form of entertainment or l;eisure that i know of[/quote:e9be57a928]

    [img:e9be57a928]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2521/3680852655_cbec4af2f0.jpg[/img:e9be57a928][/quote:e9be57a928]

    I noticed those circus posters last week. It would be hypocritical if the council did not paint over them too.

    [edit]: Seems the ones on the lower ormeau/markets area have indeed been painted over.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  153. avatar Deestroyer
    [quote:f31b2d8a3e]Hold on, the function of a council is not to assist people to advertise privately-funded profit-making events. [/quote:f31b2d8a3e] Well it doesn't usually stop it.

    [quote:f31b2d8a3e]No. I expect the council to keep the town clean rather than to facilitate people messing it up for their own profit, by illegally advertising money-making events and making the place look like shite. That's the exact opposite of what the council is supposed to do.[/quote:f31b2d8a3e]It is supposed to facilitate arts, culture and enterprise. I refer to my earlier point about fly posting importance and need.
  154. avatar T Entertainment
    OK, a few unfortunate home truths, having mulled over this whole debate once again.

    We are in the minority amongst ratepayers (those of us who are) in thinking special dispensation should be given to facilitate an act which is against the law and most people would prefer did not happen at all.

    If BCC did set up special sites, the same would happen as in other cities: illegal fly postering would continue to be a major problem. There is absolutely no reason to think Belfast would be an exception, regardless of how many people on here insist they would abide by the new rules. They're on the record as being well aware of this.

    BCC has made it abundantly clear that its only objective is to make things as unprofitable for flyposting promoters as possible. It is going on the offensive in this regard and sees no reason or grounds for 'compromise'. The painting over, in their terms, is working. They have made it clear that it is an interim measure ahead of long awaited new legislation which when passed will see real and serious consequences for venues advertised illegally, whether they do the posting themselves or not. That is going to change things fundamentally and our current paint slapping fiasco is a merely the council's holding position until it does (and it will).

    Given all of this, and how many times this debate has been kicked around without any progress whatsoever (over many years) - indeed it is getting worse - I honestly think energies would be better expended in alternative forms of gig promotion. Because it isn't going to change, and if it does it certainly won't be for the better in terms of those fly-postering.
    I couldn't give a shite about fly postering as an 'eyesore' personally and obviously most people here feel the same. Some people here even think it is the opposite and that it enhances the city visually / culturally. That our minority views are irrelevant and will remain so to the council (and those who elect the councillors) is also obvious.


    ADDS: "It is supposed to facilitate arts, culture and enterprise. I refer to my earlier point about fly posting importance and need."

    BCC would contend that it facilitates all of those things very well, at large expense to the ratepayers running into tens of millions of pounds already. It also believes that facilitating enterprise, say, and not going after those fly-postering on private businesses whose owners are completely opposed to it, are mutually exclusive positions.
    I'd personally prefer they [b:0647443dc2]did[/b:0647443dc2] do more to help the bit of the arts I'm interested in (God knows money rains down on enough shite) but I'd find it hard to argue for it on first principles.
  155. avatar Deestroyer
    Your comments are making the little baby Cecil cry.
  156. avatar T Entertainment
    [img]http://images.google.co.uk/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=http://www.pvscene.com/wp-content/uploads/meister_des_codex.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEP5jKD-m0CAibPj5a-gUDdGTKQbQ[/img]
    [i:8263d0d6ab]
    King Herod responds to fly-posting, yesterday.[/i:8263d0d6ab]
  157. avatar comprachio
    T-Ent sums up perfectly how i see this argument going. And good intentions aside I really could not see everyone sticking to designated sites as it takes only 1 or 2 clubs or independent promoters to fuck it up...

    One solution would be similar to what CDC and QUB have done in the past - BCC could produce a magazine every month that gets delivered door to door in Belfast and contains full listings as submitted by all promoters. The costs could be covered by advertising and full page gig ads making it financially feasible. BCC do similar booklets around festival periods

    I know this is covered already by the internet but it really isn't as effective as something tangible in hand.
  158. avatar SweetDickWilly
    Or we could overthrow the council..........shouldn't take long, anybody free next Wednesday?
  159. avatar Persistence
    [quote:8bdc9496f1="comprachio"]
    I know this is covered already by the internet but it really isn't as effective as something tangible in hand.[/quote:8bdc9496f1]

    It'd be a lot more accessible, I think. How many people *really* go regularly onto the gig listings at ATL, or scour promoters' websites, or even Fastfude? At least half the gigs I've ever gone to, I saw them on a flyer before I saw them advertised online.
  160. avatar The enfant terrible
    Belfast city council are a bunch of cunts. If any of them are reading this then you can go fuck yourself I'd spit in your fucking face any day of the fucking week bunch of fucking fuckheaded bastards, go fuck yourselves, you bunch of snooty jumped up the law is on our side bastards, I know people involved in voodoo so watch out you fuckers! Arseholes. I hope something nasty happens to you soon! I'll stick up posters wherever I want and the only serious consequences will be for you when bad voodoo comes your way and fucks you up. Come on ahead fuckers I'll not let this go you fucking wankers. I will win. It's the only way this can end. Give up! I'll show you what happens when things you love are splashed with paint you fucking fuckers. I'll show you! Bad shit will start happening for you. It'll seem to come from all sides and when you're sitting crying and fucking asking yourself why all these bad things are happening you then fucking think of me and your bucket of paint you fucking muppets. Eat shit.
  161. avatar Steven Dedalus
    [quote:2afa544eb2="Persistence"]

    It'd be a lot more accessible, I think. How many people *really* go regularly onto the gig listings at ATL, or scour promoters' websites, or even Fastfude? At least half the gigs I've ever gone to, I saw them on a flyer before I saw them advertised online.[/quote:2afa544eb2]

    I would get all my gigging info from the internet, and almost never from posters (this going back to the ancient times when you could still look at them).

    In factm, the only gig I think I've ever gone to just from seeing a flyposter was the American music Club gig last year.
  162. avatar fastfude
    Those of us that are hardwired to the webs will get most of our gig info online, and that's fine for us. But it's a closed system - you already have to be 'in the loop' to benefit from it.

    You also need a method for exposing new people to the music scene. The value of postering is that it has ubiquitous, passive, public exposure. You don't need to know where to look to get the info, as they exist in places that most people will pass by as part of their daily routine.

    Unregulated it undoubtedly looks bad, but I have not yet seen any solid evidence that a properly regulated scheme, backed up by enforcement, cannot work to everyone's benefit.
  163. avatar T Entertainment
    "I have not yet seen any solid evidence that a properly regulated scheme, backed up by enforcement, cannot work to everyone's benefit."

    That's as may be - I've yet to see any solid evidence of how such a scheme could work to everyone's benefit. It certainly won't be to ratepayers' colletive benefit, as it would inevtiably cost way in excess of the 100k currently being spent on dealing with fly postering.
    The 'proper regulation' the Council is waiting for is legislation which will have a dramatic impact on fly posting.
    The council has neither the budget or the inclination to do anything about this other than obliterate posters while waiting for that legislation to be introduced.

    We might as well just accept that and talk about something less boring instead - like alternatives.
    For that is very much the way it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THIlDEajSko
  164. avatar fastfude
    So what are these "alternatives"... if that [i:0d2e6d4348]is[/i:0d2e6d4348] your real name!
  165. avatar T Entertainment
    Fuck knows! I'm not here to provide solutions, I'm merely here to destroy dreams and make sure the hate for the youth will always last!
  166. avatar The Ronster
    It's funny, but until I saw that video I didn't realise just how much I really do hate the youth, and how long it will last.
  167. avatar churchwarden
    [quote:7f4cfda65d="Persistence"] How many people *really* go regularly onto the gig listings at ATL, or scour promoters' websites, or even Fastfude? At least half the gigs I've ever gone to, I saw them on a flyer before I saw them advertised online.[/quote:7f4cfda65d]

    Me!

    I even purposely sign up for all the "spam" from galleries and venues, but I also have no problems with gig posters being plastered on derelict buildings, gable walls, hoardings and other places that have no visual appeal to start with. It is not as if fly posters are sticking the posters over great works of art or significant buildings - they are covering up worse eye sores.

    However the vast majority of rate payers don't like gig posters, so I cannot see the Council moving on this issue, even if the grey paint makes the city look even worse.

    I also get the impression that certain venues / promoters appear to be exempt from the grey paint, or perhaps they just put up far more posters than anyone else?
  168. avatar Daz
    I'd love to know what the legality of the council painting onto privately owned buildings is.
  169. avatar T Entertainment
    Until a privately owned business challenges it, we will never know. And aside from venues, I can't imagine a business which would have the inclination to legally challenge council efforts to eradicate fly posting.
    I doubt any venues want to get involved in that particular pissing match, while they remain fly posting. And if they aren't, they wouldn't care anyway.
  170. avatar my-angel-rocks
    [quote:e319609543="T Entertainment"]Until a privately owned business challenges it, we will never know.[/quote:e319609543]

    So what you're suggesting as your "alternative" is a benefit gig to raise money to buy a derelict building to put fly posters up on and try to sue the council if they paint over it? You're a man of action and ideas.

    Any bands interested in playing?
  171. avatar tinpot anto
    No.


    :-)


    I am almost entirely swayed by Marty's argument. Flyposting is well "fly" it's just really basic advertising, which of course is the domain of cunts, but the fact that it's against the law and the wishes of a council full of cunts makes one decidedly conflicted.

    I say the current arms race is the way forward. Team Fresh have conclusively won this round with the use of a big fat paint marker.

    Next step is that BCC get a few tubs of paint the same colour.

    I say stencils are the next step.

    Soon everyone will be dead in a post-apocalyptic nightmare with gangs of zomboid scenesters trawling the ruins for posters which advertise fresh brains.

    Better than the status quo
  172. avatar T Entertainment
    [quote:8ae18f342d="my-angel-rocks"][quote:8ae18f342d="T Entertainment"]Until a privately owned business challenges it, we will never know.[/quote:8ae18f342d]

    So what you're suggesting as your "alternative" is a benefit gig to raise money to buy a derelict building to put fly posters up on and try to sue the council if they paint over it? You're a man of action and ideas.

    Any bands interested in playing?[/quote:8ae18f342d]


    My band!!!! www.myspace.com/myband
    its a gd cause man count us in..
  173. avatar himynameissween
    sorry to resurrect this thread again, but i thought i'd provide this info i just read.

    for those of you not priveleged/sad/suicidal enough to live in "the borough of newtownabbey", as i do, you may have not recieved the magazine called "source". it's one of those crappy "community" info magazines and it's sent to all the houses in and around the area. anyway, this article was featured in the latest issue:

    [quote:6dd99fa2ff]BUGGED BY FLYPOSTERS?

    Is a swarm of flyposters blighting your area? If it is, please contact us 02890 340140.

    Our Environment Services Department and the Newtownabbey Community Safety Partnership are tackling the problem of flyposting. As part of the Clean Neighbourhoods Programme our staff and contractors have removed more than 100 posters in the Glengormley and Ballyclare areas recently. As well as removing posters we have contacted the companies and organisations responsible and informed them of Council powers in relation to flyposting.

    The Council has also reached an agreement with other agencies and utility companies including DRD Roads Service, Northern Ireland Electricity, Northern Ireland Housing Executive and BT that it will act as a single point of contact for reports of flyposting.

    To report posters call 02890 340140. [b:6dd99fa2ff]We need your help to keep your neighbourhood and town centre free of unwanted posters.[/b:6dd99fa2ff][/quote:6dd99fa2ff]

    i hope this is appreciated. i had to hand bloody type that bullsh*t.
  174. avatar NumberBlack
    I'd like to see them contact my organisation :)
  175. avatar mattagnew
    [quote:0bd4b1ccd0="flackmeister"]And there's Derry hey...

    http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/pride/flyposting.asp[/quote:0bd4b1ccd0]

    sorry to bring this back up, i'm just wondering if anybody knows anything more about this. the link is dead but i've found a similar page about a flyposting initiative in derry.

    http://www.cciderry.com/fly-posting.html

    i've used a company who had boards across the city down in dublin, i'm just wondering if they have set something similar set up there.
  176. avatar feline1
    Well, say what you like about NIMIC,
    but if they did one thing for the NornIrish music scene, it was finding a way forward on moving to address a resolution to a solution of the problem of fly-posterizing.