1. avatar albrechtspencil
    Albrecht's Pencil and Heliopauses recent Palm House collaboration gig has received a great review on the ATL website!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/atl/review_specific245231.shtml

    Why did nobody tell us eh? This made for a pleasant surprise when browsing their site though. Particularly like this bit...

    [quote:30c0e690ab]"the artists were asking us to peel back the layers of our personalities... to reconnect with ourselves and the people around us"[/quote:30c0e690ab]

    With such epic journalism surely only world domination can follow.
  2. avatar Furious Tradesmen
    That review is also notable for being complete bollocks, on account of the guy who wrote it not having been there.
  3. avatar Goon
    How does that work?
  4. avatar albrechtspencil
    Reviewer hears about gig from 3rd party then writes it up based on word of mouth and additional information gleaned from band website, hence several dodgy details:

    Wrong order: Heliopause, then Albrecht's Pencil, then collaborative effort.

    Wrong number of collaborative tunes: 6, not 3.

    Heliopause members: Therese McKenna WASN'T THERE as she's in Dublin at the minute (though apparently "elements of folk arose from the combination of Richard Davis and Therese McKenna's vocals"). No mention made of Chris and Niall who were actually there!

    A glorious insight into the world of music journalism...
  5. avatar Crackity_jones
    Jesus, that's appalling. How did yer man think he was going to get away with that?
  6. avatar manversusjim
    The subtle ploy of not telling the bands or anyone else about it I think.

    [quote:7956251ee5]...Their endearing sound caught the attention of all that listened, from fans to people who had just wandered in...[/quote:7956251ee5]

    ...and people who were somewhere else entirely by the look of it. How do I get <i>his</i> job?
  7. avatar tinpot anto
    It's a good thing really because I found the review itself so nauseating and pretentious (YES [i:687e2142b2]PRETENTIOUS[/i:687e2142b2]) as to put me off ever seeing either band for life.
  8. avatar dodgi stereo
    Good for the bands, bad for the journalist?

    Or was this supposed to be an exercise in creative writing?
  9. avatar Beau Sooth
    Oh that's bad. Bad indeed. Reads like it was written by a hippy who soaked his head in syrup and dried it with some love...

    Really can't believe that guy wasn't even there...the nerve!
  10. avatar albrechtspencil
    Now no one's going to believe it actually was a really good gig (from our point of view).

    Sad times, I'm gonna have to commission a review by someone impartial who was actually there. Any volunteers?
  11. avatar ThePenguin
    I wasn't there, but I'm happy to give it a go.
  12. avatar spanielwoof
    I recorded most of it on minidisc if anyone wants a copy?
  13. avatar albrechtspencil
    Cool, I'd like to open the floor to anyone who'd like to review any of our past gigs (as far back as may 2007) regardless of whether you were there, speak english, know who we are etc.

    To make your review just go here

    http://albrechtspencil.blogspot.com/

    or here

    http://www.myspace.com/albrechtspencil

    copy and paste some random facts and fabricate the rest in your preferred journalistic style.

    If you're extra keen you could maybe even ask someone who was at one of the gigs and transcribe their "yeah, it was good" into an epic tale of good versus evil with a humbling moral at the end.

    Failing that, go to the gig.
  14. avatar manversusjim
    Never seen ye's, but this travesty's made me want to, after which I'd be more than happy to talk balls about it. When's your next one?
  15. avatar Pavel
    [quote:e4f06f2530="albrechtspencil"]Now no one's going to believe it actually was a really good gig (from our point of view).

    Sad times, I'm gonna have to commission a review by someone impartial who was actually there. Any volunteers?[/quote:e4f06f2530]

    Myself and Gerry Norman were there, and thought it was rather sp(l)iffing - I'm up for a wee appraisal.
  16. avatar sketchy
    Guys

    I would appreciate it if you didn't throw around accusations that the reviewer wasn't there....i know we're an easy target somtimes and everyone loves to have a pop, but we have the reviewers word that he was at this gig and he has no reason whatsoever to lie to us.

    Granted, the reference to Therese is a little strange if she wasn't there and we'll certainly ask him what that's about!

    Sean is new (I haven't met him as yet) to our online reviews and while his style isn't necessarily like the rest of our reviewers, we were happy to give him a go.

    I'm more concerned as to why the formatting and edits are a little messed up on this review, i hadn't noticed that, but no one is in work just at the moment to fix them.

    Anyway, if you don't like this review or the style in which it is written, please have a nosey at the many other reviews of local acts which you may enjoy reading. When you try and get as much decent content up as possible, with zero budget some of the time, it's inevitable the odd review may not be to everyone's tastes.

    I've not seen the band in question but have heard great things, while Heliopause have been played to death on our radio show, have recorded a session for us and been interviewed, so needless to say we do some good things for local acts some of the time ;-)

    Rigsy (ATL)
  17. avatar sketchy
    ps

    thanks for the kind words Tinpot Anto. Straight onto this thread to criticize a single dodgy (in your eyes) review but notably absent from the thread about our massive Ulster Hall gig, which was generally considered to be a success and took a massive amount of work from the ATL team to pull off.

    :-/
  18. avatar PaulATL
    Hi all.

    The views represented in any of our reviews are not necessarily those held by the programme for starters.

    We recently have engaged Sean as a reviewer to help him get started. All of our reviews are dont for free and, like our playlist approach, we accept styles different to our own and those that are not necessarily the finished article in terms of approach or finish. we like to think that by giving new writers a platform that they may help to learn to become better.
    On receiving a complaint from Heliopause, I contacted the writer and was assured strongly that all information was either gleaned from being there or from an e-mail to the band later as he left before the end. All I can do is believe the chap, for now. Until we categorically learn otherwise, lets leave the lynch mob at home tonight eh?

    If anyone wants to get in touch and review for our site, please do. Our door is open.
  19. avatar manversusjim
    Think I might. Strikes me as a good larf, reviewing bands.
  20. avatar Beau Sooth
    Somewhere in the bowels of the BBC...

    [img:910b1bd366]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/scottgoldberg/interrogation4.jpg[/img:910b1bd366]

    'For the last time!...Did you go to the Heliopause gig?!...Well did ya Sean?!...'
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  21. avatar sketchy
    :-D
  22. avatar PaulATL
    I prefer the waterboarding technique personally. ;)
  23. avatar dodgi stereo
    I think the problem is nothing to do with style. Most people would probably agree that diversity in BBC content = a good thing.

    Publishing a review/opinion piece can be subjective, and that's fine (and as likely to please a reader as offend).

    Saying someone was in a certain place when they weren't is wrong = a bad thing.

    It's hardly a scandal though, is it?

    [i:fc9cb29dd7]Journalist gets something wrong shocker!!![/i:fc9cb29dd7]
  24. avatar Captain Kennedy
    The scene outside ATL this morning.....

    [img:571b81f7ce]http://vote08.freedomblogging.com/files/2008/10/simpsons_angry_mob.png[/img:571b81f7ce]
  25. avatar sketchy
    he was at the gig tho, barry.
  26. avatar Nocarsgo
    [quote:14b1e0ebaa="PaulATL"]Hi all.

    The views represented in any of our reviews are not necessarily those held by the programme for starters.

    All of our reviews are done for free and, like our playlist approach, [i:14b1e0ebaa]we accept styles different to our own and those that are not necessarily the finished article in terms of approach or finish. we like to think that by giving new writers a platform that they may help to learn to become better.[/i:14b1e0ebaa]
    [/quote:14b1e0ebaa]

    see any review written by yours truly for proof of that
    :-D i don't think any journalist or even wannabe journalist goes to these gigs and knows every band playing, but you don't wanna give a crap review so fair play to the man, and he should be given the benefit of the doubt. we've all made a few mistakes when we've written articles. i, for one, couldn't spell john shelly and the creatures right. if it wasn't for random reviews on bbc i would have never gotten into local bands.
  27. avatar PaulATL
    dodgi, nobody has yet definitely confirmed that Sean wasnt there. He has already told me he left early and I have no reason to jump the gun on the guy and accuse him of lying (a very serious allegation for any budding journo) on the say so of this thread. I understand Niall is pissed at the review for inaccuracies though, which Sean assures me he got from the band. I am not going to judge the chap just yet, I suggest the rest of you dont either but thats hardly likely is it seeing as this is teh innernetz ;)
  28. avatar ThePenguin
    Anyway,
    Albrecht and his pencil should be grateful to Sean. This thread seems to have piqued the curiosity of a number of fooders, myself included.

    I wanna go hear them now.

    Not [b:b876c00e02]right [/b:b876c00e02]now, you understand.
  29. avatar albrechtspencil
    Wow, that fairly escalated while I went and watched some dodgy film about Harrison Ford, Sean Bean, the IRA and some of the worst Belfast accents ever.

    Just to be totally clear we don't want to encourage bad feeling towards ATL who are most definitely a very positive force in the NI music scene. Just trying to look out for the bands by keeping it as accurate as possible.

    Anyway, like you say, call off the lynch mob just for the minute, we know as well as anyone that these things can't always be perfect. Best we can do is call it when they're not though and fair play to the ATL guys for speaking up on this thread too.

    That aside [quote:5fdd2e71a5]"when's your next one?"[/quote:5fdd2e71a5]
    We're currently trying to put our first full length LP together so gigs are a little thin on the ground, have a look at the blog for some updates if you like though...

    http://albrechtspencil.blogspot.com/
  30. avatar tinpot anto
    actually gas all that. PM's
  31. avatar 666Arcane
    -
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  32. avatar Pavel
    ...I can't deny I find it hilarious how everyone deals with (even the mildest) criticism round here in some mad attempt at being as inoffensive as possible.

    Stop walking on eggshells for the love of Allah.

    [quote:2fc1fb2d47]...so needless to say we do some good things for local acts some of the time...[/quote:2fc1fb2d47]

    No one said you didn't Rigsy.

    [quote:2fc1fb2d47]Straight onto this thread to criticize a single dodgy (in your eyes) review but notably absent from the thread about our massive Ulster Hall gig, which was generally considered to be a success and took a massive amount of work from the ATL team to pull off.[/quote:2fc1fb2d47]

    I hate to even try and introduce some semblance of balance to this (I can already hear the pitchforks being sharpened) but honestly why are you even bringing that up?

    ...of course it was a success, but what bearing does it have on the Heliopause review in question can I ask? I'm completely perplexed as to why you would use one to bolster the other.

    If I (unlikely as it may be) turn round and take the best photograph in the world (the kind you print out and air hump) and then murder seventeen children...am I going to stand in court and say "...here, I might have made a mistake or seventeen but I did take that photo you abandon your wife for every Tuesday evening."

    I'm genuinely interested (from a fairly simple point/counterpoint standing) as to why you introduced the Ulster Hall gig into this discussion as if it cancels out the discussion on the review...

    Disclaimer: I didn't mean any of that, and love everyone equally as the good lord intended.

    *Runs to barricade the door* - "They're coming to get you Barbara!"
  33. avatar Furious Tradesmen
    I love ATL very much, and I've spoken to Sean. I've no ill will towards him or anyone, but the crazy errors in the piece make it clear that if he was there, it was a flying visit, and not enough to review the show..
  34. avatar Billy10
    My first post!
    I wrote the review on Albrecht's Pencil and Heliopause.

    First of all let me say I am shocked that so many people are so cutting and ignorant on this site. There have been a lot of accusations thrown around and that is totally unacceptable. This forum should be used for positive conversations and debates. People use the internet to hide behind their username and insult others. In the real world these people would not have the guts to air their opinions in a constructive manner!

    In respect to the review, I was at the gig!
    The days before the gig I was really sick and was not going to attend but I spoke to Richard the week before and promised him so I did not want to let him down.
    The information I was given the week before was that the gig was at 2pm and Richard implied that his band was headlining. I arrived at 2.10pm and Albrecht's Pencil was playing and obviously I assumed that they were the first band. I stayed to their last song and left because I was still feeling sick, I did not have a seat and the Palm House was soooooooooooo warm.

    The following day I contacted Richard from Heliopause and he sent me both band's set list. I listened to the bands lots of times and watched any videos they had and read all I could about them.

    Unfortunately I was too sick to stay for all of the gig but I was there and I made sure I had enough info to write a successful review.

    The only mistake that I admit to is that Theresa was not playing with Heliopause, this was a mistake and I hold my hands up, assumption is the mother of all F..k ups! I thought she was still playing with the guys and nobody informed me otherwise.

    In respect to how I write my reviews, everybody is different and that's what makes things interesting. I don't enjoy or agree with some of the reviews I have read on the ATL site but I understand it's just a difference in style. Remember, I am still learning and trying my best and I really appreciate Paul giving me the chance. ATL is a great supporter of Northern Ireland music and I want to continue being involved with these guys.

    If I still recieve inappropiate comments that's life but try to use your time on this site in a positive and respectful way. I understand I have made a mistake and all I can do is apologise and hope everyone accepts that.

    Goodwill to all

    P.S. SORRY!
  35. avatar chrisjedijane
    [quote:77289ea930="Billy10"]
    The only mistake that I admit to is that Theresa was not playing with Heliopause, this was a mistake and I hold my hands up, assumption is the mother of all F..k ups! I thought she was still playing with the guys and nobody informed me otherwise.

    In respect to how I write my reviews, everybody is different and that's what makes things interesting. I don't enjoy or agree with some of the reviews I have read on the ATL site but I understand it's just a difference in style. Remember, I am still learning and trying my best and I really appreciate Paul giving me the chance. ATL is a great supporter of Northern Ireland music and I want to continue being involved with these guys.
    [/quote:77289ea930]


    I'm with Niall on this, ATL have been very good to us and I don't hold any ill will to anyone here. However I consider it very bad form to try to "guess" a review of a band. If you didn't see the band, you shouldn't try to review the set.
  36. avatar Billy10
    I have already stated that I did attend the gig so I don't see your point. If the band's are not happy with the review then that's just life! I don't think I said anything that was inappropriate but I admited that Theresa was not there and that was a mistake, but I was not informed otherwise.
    This is the last I will speak on this topic. If you wish to continue to stir the pot please do, but it will not benefit anyone.
  37. avatar chrisjedijane
    [quote:f4bd9f79a8="Billy10"]I have already stated that I did attend the gig so I don't see your point. If the band's are not happy with the review then that's just life![/quote:f4bd9f79a8]

    You attended the gig, but you did not see our set and as such you're not qualified to write a credible review of it.
  38. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    We've all made mistakes, I recall a certain local hack mistaking Dave Roy for Tim Wheeler* BUT trying to deceive your audience AND the people that commissioned the piece, well, that's different.





    *Me
  39. avatar albrechtspencil
    [quote:9de5a84516]"I wrote the review on Albrecht's Pencil and Heliopause."[/quote:9de5a84516]
    Fair play for explaining yourself.

    I don't think anyone who actually gives a toss is out for blood and it's just a shame you were sick for the gig. As far as I'm concerned all that needs to be done in any situation like this is for someone to acknowledge fault and edit their piece (review, article, whatever it happens to be) where possible (obviously this wouldn't be possible in a paper publication for example). And as far as I can tell you've already done one of those things.

    I don't think it's unfair for journalists or publications to be held accountable in situations like this (just like any other non-media organisation) but when it's an easy fix nobody needs to be tarred and feathered over it.
  40. avatar tinpot anto
    There's a big difference between someone inexperienced trying to do their best as they were too sick to stay for the whole gig, and someone else who is just being a lazy shithead or writing a glowing review of a mates band, regardless of the standard of the music or performance.

    This looked like sheer laziness, which is insulting. Seems it was more well intentioned foolishness. But still you can't in any circumstances review a gig you did not see, it devalues all the other reviews on the site.
  41. avatar sketchy
    Pavel - the reference to the Ulster Hall gig was FAO Anto and absolutely no one else, so i'm not sure why you're analyzing it so much! Glad you found it so hilarious though :D
  42. avatar Billy10
    This is my last comment on this topic!

    I saw you guys the week before and listened intently to your music online. I did attend the gig and therefore I was able to experience the setting in which you guys were playing. As I saw you the week before I'm sure you were not that much different as you played an acoustic set in the Palm House and in Autie Annies.

    To be honest you would think I slandered The Beatles.

    I was sick and could not stay to the end. I don't get paid to write reviews and it costs me money to travel to Belfast.
    I am only doing this to better myself and learn.
    Congrats, you have achieved one thing at least...lots of exposure and I feel it is not the correct way to achieve it.

    Please continue to slander for you may find yourself in a similiar situation one day soon.

    I have defended myself and clearly informed people as to why I was unable to stay to the end, but I did do lots of research and contacted the correct people for as I was aware the correct information.

    The End.
  43. avatar Sir Bob Gelding
    [quote:edc7e71d52="Billy10"]
    To be honest you would think I slandered The Beatles.[/quote:edc7e71d52]


    I think you mean libel. It's been published and you've identified the people involved. And it could be argues that you've disparaged them in their profession.


    See you in court.
  44. avatar Billy10
    I think you mean (argued) not (argues) and never start a sentence with (And). Remember we all make mistakes!!
  45. avatar Pavel
    [quote:8bc879f8f6="Billy10"]This forum should be used for positive conversations and debates.[/quote:8bc879f8f6]

    Yes Orwell, will do.

    [quote:8bc879f8f6]People use the internet to hide behind their username and insult others. In the real world these people would not have the guts to air their opinions in a constructive manner![/quote:8bc879f8f6]

    As a sweeping generalisation it just isn't true. People [b:8bc879f8f6]can[/b:8bc879f8f6] do that but then on the other side of the coin you get people like Anto, Roger, Rigsy, Paul and even myself speaking under their own names/names that we know to be people in 'the real world'.

    The internet stopped being truly anonymous years ago.

    [quote:8bc879f8f6="sketchy"]Pavel - the reference to the Ulster Hall gig was FAO Anto and absolutely no one else, so i'm not sure why you're analyzing it so much! Glad you found it so hilarious though :D[/quote:8bc879f8f6]

    Forgive me, I can get a mite locked on sometimes.

    ...I know that might have been the intention, but it came across as a cap on the discussion itself, holding one up against the other - and in all honesty I don't agree with using it in direct discussion with Anto either because it still has absolutely no relevance whatsoever with the topic at hand.

    I apologise for repeating my analogy (and to change it up a little) but...[i:8bc879f8f6]if I take one good photo of band A, and then go out and take ten shite photos of band B; and they cry about it - is it right for me to turn round and say - "but I took this other good one, end of conversation."[/i:8bc879f8f6]

    I hate to be absolute but I'm afraid it doesn't. Just don't take a bad comment about a review as a smear against the entirety of ATL, then defend yourselves by bringing entirely unrelated elements into the discussion.

    ...or perhaps I shouldn't have signed up for the debating team when I was 12, who knows - time will tell. I'm sure just by pointing out this fallacy in logical discussion I'll no doubt come across as siding with the witch hunters - and I couldn't care less really.

    [quote:8bc879f8f6="Billy10"]This is my last comment on this topic![/quote:8bc879f8f6]

    That's what you said last time...

    [quote:8bc879f8f6="Billy10"]This is the last I will speak on this topic.[/quote:8bc879f8f6]

    ...more lies! *pitchforks!*
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  46. avatar Furious Tradesmen
    Look, this is getting way out of hand. It pissed me off that someone "reviewed" our set without having watched it, because that's totally preposterous. (As it happens, it was nothing like the Auntie Annies show, and if you saw us there it's a shame you didn't mention us in your review of that show!) ATL and the writer have repeatedly apologized and made it clear that it won't happen again, which is cool. And at least he didn't assume we were rubbish, as many might have!
  47. avatar Furious Tradesmen
    And there's nothing wrong with starting sentences with "and"! That's a myth propagated by lazy primary school teachers.
  48. avatar Pavel
    To help move this all back into a direction Orwell would be more approving of...

    The gig was extremely good - there, I said it.

    "No, don't steal my emotions!"
  49. avatar chrisjedijane
    [quote:42cbe6cb3a="Billy10"]This is my last comment on this topic!

    I saw you guys the week before and listened intently to your music online. I did attend the gig and therefore I was able to experience the setting in which you guys were playing. As I saw you the week before I'm sure you were not that much different as you played an acoustic set in the Palm House and in Autie Annies.

    To be honest you would think I slandered The Beatles.

    I was sick and could not stay to the end. I don't get paid to write reviews and it costs me money to travel to Belfast.
    I am only doing this to better myself and learn.
    Congrats, you have achieved one thing at least...lots of exposure and I feel it is not the correct way to achieve it.

    Please continue to slander for you may find yourself in a similiar situation one day soon.

    I have defended myself and clearly informed people as to why I was unable to stay to the end, but I did do lots of research and contacted the correct people for as I was aware the correct information.

    The End.[/quote:42cbe6cb3a]

    I find it completely ridiculous that you don't realise that it's wrong to write reviews of bands that you haven't seen. your review of our show was entirely fabricated, and is entirely lacking in credibility. To assume that our show would have been the same as our (full band, rock set) show in Annies the week previous is utterly ludicrous. I've reviewed shows before where I missed certain bands and didn't dare attempt to pass any comment on them, because I hadn't seen them.

    edit: Just read Niall's post now, which says a lot of the same stuff.
  50. avatar Rocky
    This is crazy!
    Rigsy & Paul, I think ATL have a really high standard and reputation and I think it's vital that you guys continue to uphold that. I read the ATL news & reviews everyday, it's probably the only local music output I look at so regularly.

    I'm friends with some of the guys in Heliopause, but that doesn't have anything to do with my views on this debacle.

    8 times out of 10 in Oppenheimer reviews/interviews there are lazy, incorrect or just plain stupid "facts" within.
    As an artist it's so frustrating that people can't fact check or seemningly don't care enough about my band to learn information. It's even worse that they are coasting through life with a half-assed attitude, often tainting peoples perception of what I do.

    The NME took three quarters of our 1st album review having a go at Tim Wheeler, then talked about how Shaun & I were a married couple.
    Drowned In Sound, after talking in the interview about how lazy NME were went on to congratulate us on our fantastic cover of NWA's Straight Outta Compton.

    It's this sort of terrible journalism that's always been missing from ATL, because everyone who works on the show knows enough about what they write about to get things correct.
    That's a very important part of being a credible operation.

    This review as far as I'm concerned is exactly like me
    recording the drums and bass for Heliopause, being too sick to continue, going home and singing all over the top of it.
    Is it a Heliopause recording? no.

    It's like Pavel taking a picture of Niall Harden, going home sick and dressing up as Chris and Richard and super-imposing himself. Is that a Heliopause press shot?

    It's like going to domino's pizza, but they're too sick to cook your pizza, so they give you a donkey. Is it a Domino's Pizza? No, it's a fucking donkey.
  51. avatar Pavel
    [quote:d9df213464="Rocky"]It's like Pavel taking a picture of Niall Harden, going home sick and dressing up as Chris and Richard and super-imposing himself. Is that a Heliopause press shot?[/quote:d9df213464]

    :lol: - if the guys at Heliopause are reading this, I'm game if you are!
  52. avatar Furious Tradesmen
    No problem. And if Rocky would like to do that recording, I think it sounds nice.
  53. avatar richpause
    well what a thread to appear especially so long after the event.
    i've just noticed we're on top of the hot topics list, i never would have imagined it possible. and i'd just like to thank everyone who helped get us there, the reviewer, fastfude fanatics, therese, niall, chris, my mum, my dad and of course god.

    so i want to quickly take the chance to say please check out our new website. i've taken a few pain staking months to learn code, phew.

    www.heliopause.co.uk

    its not the most amazing site probably but we have free downloads of music and videos for you including the lovely Acoustic in Berlin EP myself and Therese recorded while living there... back in the days Therese was actually there singing with me! Oh thems were the days.

    Any way check out the site, enjoy and see yous all soon.
    richard
  54. avatar albrechtspencil
    I wanna hear that cover of 'straight outta compton'.

    You can fight over who gets to be who, and ultimately who gets the short straw and has to be easy e.
  55. avatar all-is-vanity
    [quote:8c0e302997="Rocky"]Is it a Domino's Pizza? No, it's a fucking donkey.[/quote:8c0e302997]
    I'm going to use that comment in as many inappropriate ways as possible.
  56. avatar The enfant terrible
    [quote:98969185f4="albrechtspencil"]
    You can fight over who gets to be who, and ultimately who gets the short straw and has to be easy e.[/quote:98969185f4]

    But he's the brother that'll smother your mother!
  57. avatar albrechtspencil
    AND make your sister think he loves her...

    Has anyone heard the really dodgy and inappropriate rap done by Ice Cube and co. after the NWA split where they slag easy e about having aids? Rap hasn't been the same since political correctness.
  58. avatar PaulATL
    Sorry guys but this WILL happen again, in so much as we will constantly keep the door open to inexperienced and in some cases naive young journalists. In 99.9 per cent iof the time we have a team of trusted young folk who do this out of love and the thrill of getting a byline on a a publication that carries a degree of weight. This is great, obviously. With that though, comes the risk of people not playing straight or being naive to the point of undoing previous good work.

    I am very concerned about this though. It seems I was not told the entire truth. In an age of massive suspicion about the BBC this is pretty grim for us on every level, apologies.
  59. avatar chrisjedijane
    That's cool Paul, My gripe was never with ATL, it was with the reviewer himself. I completely understand that when a writer submits a review you're inclined to believe that it's factually correct and an accurate account of the show.
  60. avatar tinpot anto
    I don't think anyone is blaming ATL anyway, expecting you to know if parts of a review are true or not is totally beyond reasonable.

    The fault lies with the reviewer completely.
  61. avatar Pavel
    I can only echo what Anto and Chris have already said, and also what I said in earlier posts - I don't think anyone is actually leveling anything against ATL itself as such; and anyone that is shouldn't, in this situation.

    So...three month paid suspensions all round for Paul and Rigsy then? ;)
  62. avatar PaulATL
    briiiiiiing it onnn! gardening leave would be awesome. I dont even have a garden. Yard leave?
  63. avatar Pavel
    [quote:e118e243e9="PaulATL"]briiiiiiing it onnn! gardening leave would be awesome. I dont even have a garden. Yard leave?[/quote:e118e243e9]

    I've registered my complaint with...OfCom ;) (I presume? - I don't know. I've never actually complained before...)

    Who does ATL live in mortal fear of? Is it OfCom?

    ...or do they just cover television.
  64. avatar PaulATL
    we live in mortal fear of Ofcom yes, and celery.

    did you get my PM pavel? pls reply.
  65. avatar Pavel
    [quote:6a568fb313="PaulATL"]we live in mortal fear of Ofcom yes, and celery.

    did you get my PM pavel? pls reply.[/quote:6a568fb313]

    Ah right, wasn't sure.

    Er...I emailed you quite some time ago? I'll assume you didn't receive it.

    EDIT: ...was to your personal email now, not your BBC account.
  66. avatar Gogs
    [quote:75c867f145="Rocky"]It's like going to domino's pizza, but they're too sick to cook your pizza, so they give you a donkey. Is it a Domino's Pizza? No, it's a fucking donkey.[/quote:75c867f145]

    I found the reviewer's 'defence' pretty cringe-worthy reading, there are times when you're wrong and you should admit that without making excuses; Rocky summed up pretty well. And I just LOL'd at work at the above. Thanks. :D