1. avatar Dirty Stevie Grizz
    The inevitable is to happen, according to UTV.

    Can't find any story yet online.

    Can this be moved to EGREGIOUS now, to save time later?
  2. avatar Steven Dedalus
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7277886.stm

    There's no other info at the moment....
  3. avatar Dirty Stevie Grizz
    I demand Paul Berry be re-instated as new leader
  4. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    just heard from T-Ents in the Beeb newsroom, that Big Ian has resigned.

    All hail Chucky Martin as our new overlord. :lol:
  5. avatar The_Martyr
    [quote:381ec50936="Dirty Stevie Grizz"]I demand Paul Berry be re-instated as new leader[/quote:381ec50936]

    outstanding mistake, given I just read that as Paul [i:381ec50936]Barry[/i:381ec50936], and conjured up a bizarre hybrid lovechild of the Chuckle Brothers.
  6. avatar drakeguild
    It will be interesting to see who takes his post.
  7. avatar Chi-Lite
    No, because it's a foregone conclusion that it will be Peter Robinson.
  8. avatar Steven Dedalus
    I think that the best man for the job is Captain James T Kirk, for a number of reasons:

    1. Kirk was very good at dealing with other races and cultures, and would be well prepared for Prods vs Taigs.

    2. Kirk ran the Enterprise, pushing everyone to the limit of their abilities, regularly pulling miracles out of the hat. In that way, he'll be well suited to dealing with the assembly.

    3. Two words - dramatic tension.

    4. If things get out of hand, he could just blow up the planet, or go back in time or something...

    5. He's Captain Kirk.

    Case closed, I think.
  9. avatar zebulon
    [quote:76e4d366ab="Steven Dedalus"]I think that the best man for the job is Captain James T Kirk, for a number of reasons[/quote:76e4d366ab]
    Kirk would be the best man for one reason and one reason alone: Kobayashi Maru.
  10. avatar ryanego
    What about Roger/Fastfude?
  11. avatar greensleevesisgod
    What topic is this? I pressed reply presumably and I'm not actually sure what topic it is.

    Hey How are you guys?
  12. avatar fastfude
    I'd prefer the Assembly's [url=http://www.ravenna.com/~forbes/images/spock.jpg]Evil Science Officer[/url] or [url=http://dilithiumcrystal.com/db2/00140/dilithiumcrystal.com/_uimages/Dilithium-circuit.jpg]Chief Ulster-Scots Fixsur o' Tracters[/url] position really. There aren't enough voluptuous green-skinned women at Stormont to tempt me into the top job.
  13. avatar George W Best
    I heard he retired because he has to stay at home now and look after the young fella.
  14. avatar kingmob
    Between Glennon and this the times are a-changing in Norn Iron.
  15. avatar Daithi jasper
    Paisley and Castro in the same year, its as if the 60s are finally fading away..
  16. avatar kingmob
    AND the creator of Dungeons and Dragons died today. Tis madness!
  17. avatar RAAP Management
    Fear not, the more things change, the more they stay the same: evidenced by Mark Devenport doing a two way from Linen Hall Street tonight and a car-load of spides guldering 'YEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!' as they drove past.
    It was immensely reassuring in a time of momentous flux.
  18. avatar Mutts Nutts
    Just watching Spotlight and is it my imagination or do you need a speech impediment involving the letter 'S' to be a Unionist spokesperson? Jaysus, some guy just tried to say 'colossus'. jeeshush waypt. Sho he did.
  19. avatar unplugged
    The man achieved a heck of alot for this country lets not knock him.

    I mean at his age he should definately be trying to take it easier. Good on him.
  20. avatar Warren Drugs
    Yeah, Ulster Resistance was my own personal favourite.
    That and the auld "silent collection".
    Great guy.
  21. avatar Strong Reaction
    I'm pretty sure he's been senile for the past decade. And not in the quaintly amusing grandparent way.
  22. avatar 10rapid
    It's genuinely difficult to form an opinion on paisley these days...
    It's hard to discount his rabble rousing and general unpleasantness of the past 40 years but also commendable his stance for the past 12 months.
    however, his resignation seems to be forced by the DUP, using their usual strategy of letting someone else do the dirty work and then sacrificing them on the altar of "traitor".
    Seems very similar to the way they let trimble do all the negotiating for the good friday agreement, while taking a "principled stance" of not talking to the shinners.
    This meant they could shout about betrayal and wipe out the UUP at the polls, only to then turn around and go down the same route.

    Now it's old Paisley that has to fall on his sword.

    They're a bunch of snakes and the prospect of either Dodds or Robinson as first minister is genuinely scary.
    Imagine being represented by either of those two personality vacuums.
  23. avatar The Ronster
    I don't see why Paisley stepping down doesn't lead to one of two situations:

    1. McGuinness becomes 1st Minister by default, much like the American system.

    2. An election is held.
  24. avatar tinpot anto
    My favourite paisley moment was him standing on a flat bed lorry on the Shankill reading out the addresses of "Known Papists" and urging the residents to free themselves from their malign presence.

    Lovely
  25. avatar George W Best
    [quote:14d5b93509="The Ronster"]I don't see why Paisley stepping down doesn't lead to one of two situations:

    1. McGuinness becomes 1st Minister by default, much like the American system.

    2. An election is held.[/quote:14d5b93509]

    Because Americans vote for a President in the knowledge that the vice President on the ticket will replace them if if they die/quit etc.

    Here we vote for a representative and it is the responsibility of the representatives to select first minister.
  26. avatar unplugged
    Art Garfunkel McGuiness is good for 2 things.

    Curling his big ginger bap and talking nonense on tv letting on he knows what education is when he didnt get one

    :lol:
  27. avatar kingmob
    [quote:0cf0ee0710="10rapid"]They're a bunch of snakes and the prospect of either Dodds or Robinson as first minister is genuinely scary.[/quote:0cf0ee0710]

    There has been a school of thought that for years Robinson was the more pragmatic member of the DUP and was extremely keen privately on power-sharing. Someone else probably knows more about that here than me though.
  28. avatar trepanner
    A well reasoned and balanced appraisal of both sides of the story there Unplugged, as ever.

    Here's a thing. Can anyone help me out here?

    That story on the BBC site refers to how Paisley's successor will be elected - "this is not Apostolic succession".

    Thing is, when I read that at about 6 pm yesterday, I'm reasonably convinced that it at first said something very similar but actually used some word/s that were either "Pope" or "Rome" to describe it. This stands out in my mind because I remember thinking "Um, surely the Pope is elected in a manner not entirely unlike that in which your successor will be elected?".

    But now it reads "Apostolic succession".

    It is entirely possible that this may all be the product of my fevered imagination. Anyone confirm/deny? (or tell me how to pull the old version of the page out of the depths of my computer, if it does indeed exist?)
  29. avatar Seamusmaguidhir
    [quote:d8ff16d82e="trepanner"]Anyone confirm/deny? [/quote:d8ff16d82e]

    On the news yesterday the good reverend said there would be an election as the DUP is not the Catholic Church-just as well or they'd be overrun with anti-christs
  30. avatar rentaghost
    Out of all of this, the only thing I want is the 'retrospectoscope' that Alisdair McDonnell was banging on about last night on Spotlight.

    I think he has been reading too much Harry Potter or sthg
  31. avatar Mutts Nutts
    In a typical Paisleyite misunderstanding, Apostolic Succession refers to the fact that the Pope is a successor of Peter not the means of his election -which is indeed conducted in a similar manner to that of the DUP. Except that the party members involved are all Cardinals. And Papists. :wink:
  32. avatar Pix
    I was chatting to dontpetaburningdog about this. It seems obvious that there are much darker reasons to his 'retirement' than his age. Ian junior's f*cking around had very VERY deep implications.
    There'll probably be a spotlgiht special when he kicks the bucket in 10 years about it.
  33. avatar tinpot anto
    He said "Apostolic Devolution" too on the BBC Radio Ulster last night, just to further confuse things.
  34. avatar Chi-Lite
    I'm not joking, but I seriously shouldn't have said that.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  35. avatar tinpot anto
    Sure just tell us.

    is it that he was a dirty manipulative bigotted old f*cker who exploited the circumstances of this part of Ireland for over 40 years; inciting hatred and violence all under a distorted flag of christian virtue, for his own lust for power?

    Is it worse than that? i'd love to hear it.
  36. avatar Chi-Lite
    Seriously.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  37. avatar tinpot anto
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I can hear the Special Branch kicking in your door from here!
  38. avatar trepanner
    Apostolic succession, then; very interesting, I heard.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  39. avatar T Entertainment
    What did he say? Did it involve lizards?
  40. avatar Chi-Lite
    Yes

    Yes it did
  41. avatar rentaghost
    big green ones
    :lol: :lol:
  42. avatar voiceofthepeople
    I liked the interview on Newsline where I'm sure he said

    "I am not a young man, it's time in this country for the capable young people - [i:7a1f39e1eb]and women [/i:7a1f39e1eb]- to come to the fore."

    Women - officially not people.
  43. avatar trepanner
    Things are going too far. If we allow women "people" status next thing we'll be calling disabled people "humans" then allowing gay marriages to proceed unhindered AND THEN THE TERRORISTS WILL HAVE WON.
  44. avatar feline1
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_Ulster_from_Sodomy
  45. avatar Mickeycolensoparade
    what did he say?
  46. avatar RockShandy
    [quote:d397275474="tinpot anto"]Sure just tell us.

    is it that he was a dirty manipulative bigotted old f*cker who exploited the circumstances of this part of Ireland for over 40 years; inciting hatred and violence all under a distorted flag of christian virtue, for his own lust for power?

    Is it worse than that? i'd love to hear it.[/quote:d397275474]

    You should write a song about it.
  47. avatar nonlogic liam
    [quote:4b28750782="tinpot anto"]My favourite paisley moment was him standing on a flat bed lorry on the Shankill reading out the addresses of "Known Papists" and urging the residents to free themselves from their malign presence.

    Lovely[/quote:4b28750782]

    Yeah, but at least that was funny.
  48. avatar unplugged
    i was taking the hand out of both parties man.

    Politics dont interest me at all.

    Gerry Anderson shares a similar view to me on politicians i heard him quoting it this morning.

    Years ago as politics here were riddled with violence and all the non violent forward thinking 'smarter' people instead of getting invloved went to uni and got jobs as solicitors, estate agents, architects etc....all the eejits got locked up for various reasons and then when released roped into high paid jobs as politicians. They are still there.
    Its going to take 2 generations of people now that peace is for for smart educated people to get back into politics here. As Gerry pointed out most of our politicians should be playing snooker in tin huts lol

    Ulsters politics have bored me since the day i was born and i never hadve voted for anyone. As far as im concerned the pack of them are mostly to a degree away to the mixer.
    I pointed out big Paisley has done alot for the country. As has Mr Adams, incidentally who gratefully helped my poor grandfather who lives in the top of the Ballygomartin Rd (west belfast) keep his house in times of ill health before he passed away.

    What i am saying is as MPs they prob do an ok job for the people but the policitical situation here just bores me to tears. Its shockingly disgraceful.

    All everyone wants at the end of the day is peace and quiet.
  49. avatar George W Best
    [quote:d8c39f6b3c="unplugged"]
    Years ago as politics here were riddled with violence and all the non violent forward thinking 'smarter' people instead of getting invloved went to uni and got jobs as solicitors, estate agents, architects etc....
    [/quote:d8c39f6b3c]
    True, but only if you totally ignore those who were involved in the civil rights movement in the 60s. So therefore it is actually a load of balls what you are saying.

    We have the politicians we have because that's who the people voted for. Those who voted for them are to blame.
    And to say all everyone wants is a quiet life, that's a load of balls, it was perfectly easy to have a 'quiet life' in communist Russia, all you had to do was keep your mouth shut and do what you are told.

    Personally speaking I firmly believe if you have 'never voted in your life' you should not be allowed to offer your opinion on any public matter under any circumstances ever*. Full stop.
    (This does not apply to those who deliberately spoil their votes, only those who can't be arsed going to the polling booth)
  50. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:b37768b837="George W Best"]

    Personally speaking I firmly believe if you have 'never voted in your life' you should not be allowed to offer your opinion on any public matter under any circumstances ever*. Full stop.
    (This does not apply to those who deliberately spoil their votes, only those who can't be arsed going to the polling booth)[/quote:b37768b837]

    You're being highly presumptuous about personal motivations about which you can know nothing, though.

    Perhaps those people who can't be arsed going to the polling stations can't be arsed for precisely the same reasons that people spoil their votes.

    As if spoiling your vote is going to make any more difference than not being arsed.

    We've had this discussion before, and if my selective and biased memory serves me right, I roundly trumped you all.
  51. avatar fastfude
    [url=http://fastfude.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17153]yes[/url], but only because you stuffed the ballot full of hanging chads :P
  52. avatar George W Best
    Spoiled votes are recorded and published with the official voting totals.
    Unused votes are not.

    Spoilt votes are counted as a protest against the suitability of the candidates put forward.
    Unused votes are dismissed as apathetic citizens.

    If you are not happy with the politicians put forward to represent you the only way to register this in an election is to spoil your vote.

    A large number of spoilt votes can be used to contest the legitimacy of an election.
    A large number of unused votes can not.

    People who don't vote are voluntarily giving up their right to have their say.
    I do not respect the political opinion of anyone who does not vote as they obviously do not appreciate the struggles that those who came before them went through to get them that right.
    If you don't vote you are a tool.
  53. avatar die the flu
    I don't vote because there isn't a single c*nt who stands for election who even comes anywhere close to representing my ideals.

    Surely my position is thus enirely reasonable, and I shouldn't be continually patronized by f*ckwit ad campaigns telling me I'm somehow losing my right to express my opinion in, er, a democratic society.

    I can quite easily comment on issues in the public sphere, and complain about them to my democratically elected sectarian idiot representative if I felt they were in a position to represent my point of view as required.
  54. avatar fastfude
    in case it was missed, we've done this already: http://fastfude.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17153
  55. avatar tinpot anto
    And my exhasutive statistical illustration proved you all wrong. :lol:
  56. avatar George W Best
    [quote:cdc0327952="die the flu"]I don't vote because there isn't a single c*nt who stands for election who even comes anywhere close to representing my ideals.

    Surely my position is thus enirely reasonable, and I shouldn't be continually patronized by f*ckwit ad campaigns telling me I'm somehow losing my right to express my opinion in, er, a democratic society.

    I can quite easily comment on issues in the public sphere, and complain about them to my democratically elected sectarian idiot representative if I felt they were in a position to represent my point of view as required.[/quote:cdc0327952]

    The difference is if you want the c*nts standing to know that you don't think they are worth voting for and you want a public record made that you don't think there is a c*nt worth voting for the only way to do this is to spoil your vote.
    Not voting can be put forward by the politicians as people so happy with the status quo that they don't care who runs things because no matter who it is they'll do a grand job.

    Spoiled votes are your way of saying you don't like the status quo and you want to see changes made to the system.
  57. avatar trepanner
    Matters not; First Minister Ian Paisley is quoted in the Wikipedia article above (and doubtless elsewhere) as saying the Bible should determine what is or is not legal in a state based upon Christian values, and I believe it's documented in the book of Numbers, chapter 16 wherein God basically smites a few hundred would-be voters into a great big fiery pit for taking up with the notion of Democracy.

    Therefore I for one will continue to sit in the house drinking claret each polling day, and have certainly never felt comfortable about voting for anyone who apparently must believe that "One Vote : One Smite" is on the agenda.

    I watch the news each polling day with great interest and no small measure of disappointment at the continued absence of Smitings.
  58. avatar The enfant terrible
    the only people who can afford not to vote are the middle and upper classes

    and the only people who shouldn't vote are the working classes (cos they should just lynch the fuckers standing for election and seize power for themselves).
  59. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:a3e940ed25="tinpot anto"]And my exhasutive statistical illustration proved you all wrong. :lol:[/quote:a3e940ed25]

    Actually, if I remember rightly, your exhaustive statistical illustration amounted to no more than an entirely unrealistic hypothesis that almost everyone who doesn't vote [i:a3e940ed25]would[/i:a3e940ed25] actually vote for the same one or two parties, [i:a3e940ed25]if[/i:a3e940ed25] they did vote, which they don't, and [i:a3e940ed25]if[/i:a3e940ed25] they did vote for one of two parties, which they dont.

    Ballix, i think you mean.
  60. avatar trepanner
    It occurs there might be a few minutes entertainment for the dangerously bored in taking one of the more smite-heavy passages of the bible and doing a find/replace with "Smite" being substitued by "Smitty".
  61. avatar T Entertainment
    Yes but what has any of this got to do with the lizards?
  62. avatar tinpot anto
    I heard David Icke exposed the Sweeny plans for Giant's Causeway as a disguised landing site for a reptilious invasion party. The stones on the Causeway have the power to amplify psychic vibrational frequencies allowing the Herpatic Overlords to project their powerful mental control strategies further across the globe, bringing their plans for Mammalian Enslavment, and extraction of nutrients, to fulfilment ahead of schedule.

    I also heard the plan was foiled by a group of plucky school kids.
  63. avatar Daithi jasper
    He didn't mention lizards though did he? :)
  64. avatar George W Best
    Okay this my last word on the
    Don't bother voting vs Spoiling vote thingy.

    Imagine if you will an election between 2 politicians with 100 registered voters.

    Scenario 1
    Politician A gets 30 votes
    Policitan B gets 20 votes
    50 reistered voters do not bother to vote

    Outcome - Politician a wins with 60% of the vote.

    Scenario 2
    Politician A gets 30 votes
    Policitan B gets 20 votes
    50 reistered voters spoil their vote

    Outcome - No Politican can truly claim a mandate as neither of them have more than 30% of the vote. Cue mass public debate and total re-evaluation of the electoral system.


    In summary if you don't vote at all you are making it easier for the people you don't think are fit for office.
  65. avatar T Entertainment
    I HATE this sort of thing! *stamps feet*

    Can I have a cryptic clue?
  66. avatar nonlogic liam
    A duce and a turd anyone?
  67. avatar trepanner
    [quote:385ad4f84e="George W Best"]
    In summary if you don't vote at all you are making it easier for the people you don't think are fit for office.[/quote:385ad4f84e]

    While that's broadly true, failure to vote does not hence invalidate someone's comments/thoughts on politics any more than failure to actively participate in music renders your comments/thoughts on music invalid, Shirley.
  68. avatar fastfude
    Except how hard is it to nip down the street and make an X (or a 1,2,3) on a page, given [i:c2e93ad9a4]five years'[/i:c2e93ad9a4] advance notice?

    For those scuppered by unexpected events, fine. For those who can't be arsed but then proceed to bray on about crime/justice/society/politics at great length (and often without any basis in fact): feck em.
  69. avatar unplugged
    Yeah but see other peoples point to Rog....not that they cant be arsed to vote.....maybe yeah you are totally CORRECT in that people like myself should go and SPOIL my vote and i prob will in future....BUT ask yourself WHY people dont bother - im sure its not through laziness - its prob due to -

    These fekkers have been voted in by those who DO vote - and to a certain degree who DONT vote - and still the crime rates, health system, housing system etc are worse than they have ever been. All they are worried about is filling their pockets - this has been proven lately by certain politicians. Its a money spinning circus show for clowns in suits. In my opinion anyhow. Something we are all entitled to without getting flak for it.
  70. avatar fastfude
    So let them carry on, or vote them out. That's how it works y'see. You getting up and voting for someone to change it is the only thing that can change it - and if no-one on your ballot paper will offer that change, you stand as an independent yourself to force the issue. cf [url=http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/martin_bell/tatton]Martin Bell[/url], [url=http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/richard_taylor/wyre_forest]Richard Taylor[/url], [url=http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mla/kieran_deeny]Kieran Deeny[/url] and so on.
  71. avatar Mutts Nutts
    [quote:9bf525c536]If you are not happy with the politicians put forward to represent you the only way to register this in an election is to spoil your vote.[/quote:9bf525c536]

    Or vote for Rainbow George. A true visionary innit? :wink:
  72. avatar nonlogic liam
    [quote:8e33c2a41d="fastfude"]Except how hard is it to nip down the street and make an X (or a 1,2,3) on a page, given [i:8e33c2a41d]five years'[/i:8e33c2a41d] advance notice?

    For those scuppered by unexpected events, fine. For those who can't be arsed but then proceed to bray on about crime/justice/society/politics at great length (and often without any basis in fact): feck em.[/quote:8e33c2a41d]

    I'm a legal alien. How do I go about getting registered to vote? Do I have to knit a union flag or dance a lively gig?
  73. avatar die the flu
    I demand a "spoil my vote" option on the fastfude post vote counter smiley/sad face thing!!
  74. avatar anty
    heath ledger for dup #1

    little air freshner noone will know the difference :D
  75. avatar Jbb
    Mc Guinness will end up first minister i bet
  76. avatar unplugged
    [img:1d21164d9e]http://www.dowen.de/Web%20Pictures/Concerts/Art%20Garfunkel%20%20Live%20In%20London/mini-Art%20Garfunkel%2031.JPG[/img:1d21164d9e]
  77. avatar Portadown News Editor
    Re: spoilt votes. We arguably owe the peace process to tactical vote spoiling in the 1981 Fermanagh by-election, in which the famously hungry furniture store arsonist Bobby Sands was elected to Her Majesty's parliament.
    The number of spoiled ballots was 3,000 - more than double Sands' winning majority. These ballots represented a nationalist constituency who supported Sinn Fein's aims but would not endorse its methods - and who were sufficiently motivated to get off their backsides to send that message, which the Shinners received loud and clear.

    Vote spoiling can be a powerful tactic when its intentions are clear - one reason why, in Australia, it is illegal for election candidates to campaign for spoiled ballots under the compulsory voting system.
  78. avatar esotericeric93
    Thank feck, he's no me
  79. avatar feline1
    Look, why are y'all STILL whingeing on about voting when it's clear that most of the electorate are moronic spides?

    EUGENICS and CULLING is the answer, and it's what we're getting anyways.

    DRY YOUR EYES
  80. avatar feline1
    If i wasn't banned from the Grauniad Comment is Free, I'd be well getting stuck in here
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/0200/mar/06/northernireland.ianpaisley

    Wee Gerry's eulogy to Big Ian.


    Someone else says it well with
    "The fact that you and paisley will go down in history as peace makers shows exactly how unfair and f*ck up this world is. I mean having to thank people for not blowing me up or preaching bigotry really is ridiculous."
  81. avatar Chi-Lite
    Jesus, what a tired oul point to make.

    Which begs the question, what the f[b:2fe89e365d][/b:2fe89e365d]uck do you know about it, Brighton-boy?

    what avbout thanking people for, amazingly, going some way to solving a centuries old conflict in which, although they may have played a part, certainly neither of them started.

    As if, had Paisley and Adams never been born, we would have all got along just nicely.

    I don't know Feline, although sometimes you can be quite funny and insightful ,you also see other things in an extremely shallow and narrow sense.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  82. avatar fastfude
    Does that mean it's wrong?
  83. avatar Chi-Lite
    No, as I say, say what you like about the part both men played in prolonging the conflict, which is certainly arguable in both cases, but there is absolutely no doubt that both men have also played a part in solving it, or at least attempting too, admittedly Paisley only doing so in the last year.

    It's like saying, "Why should be thank Gorbachev for the collapse of the soviet union, sure if it hadn't been for him we'd have never had communism....why should i thank him for not attempting to control me in a centralised state diktat?"


    Stupid, is what i mean
  84. avatar tinpot anto
    That's all sweet Marty except Paisley [i:2253352247]actually[/i:2253352247] had a fairly big hand in starting the whole thing. :lol:
  85. avatar RockShandy
    [quote:9a52aa5e38="tinpot anto"]That's all sweet Marty except Paisley [i:9a52aa5e38]actually[/i:9a52aa5e38] had a fairly big hand in starting the whole thing. :lol:[/quote:9a52aa5e38]

    You're showing your colours, anto. Careful now.
  86. avatar unplugged
    they all did. And they all have got very wealthy out of it too the pack of bastards.
  87. avatar tinpot anto
    Well since it's well documented that his street level agitation in the 60's forced all unionist leaders out of power who showed the slightest inclination to concede civil rights demands to catholics then he does play a big part.

    Likewise (in the tediously necessary fashion required by political discourse in this country) Adams, McGuinness and the IRA leadership share a blame for wresting the focus of nationalist demands for reform from the non-violent and cross-community civil rights movement into a rather outdated patriotic demand for Irish Unity.

    Of course at the end of the day it's the Brits fault for invading Ireland 800 years ago. :lol:
  88. avatar Chi-Lite
    No, houl on a minute.......starting the anglo-irish problem?

    Paisley in particular may well have stoked the fires in the 60s, but only because there was a fire there to stoke. and as for Gerry, he didn't start anything, either in the 60's, the 20's, the 17th century or the 11th.

    Like i say, I'm not trying to suggest they had nothing to do with it other than to solve it, but they started this problem in the same way that Gorbachev started the Soviet Union.
  89. avatar fastfude
    Vikings out!
  90. avatar tinpot anto
    Nah but Marty he really did more than "stoke the fires". More like 20 gallons of 4-star.
  91. avatar Chi-Lite
    difference in degree but not substance. there was still already a fire there to stoke, else he would have been merely a voice in the wilderness, a piece of straw in the wind.

    Ach, you know what i'm saying. And you all know why Feline's full of balls. :lol:
  92. avatar George W Best
    What are these 'Trouble' of which you speak?

    Can anyone give me a quick refresher (no more than 80 words) outlining who were the good guys, who were the bad guys and who won in the end?
  93. avatar tinpot anto
    Well the fire could have been allowed to go out if the reforms instigated by O'Neill et al were allowed to come to fruition.

    My point is that he really doesn't deserved remembered as a "peacemaker" by any standards. the only person who can claim that title with any validity in my book is John Hume but he's got his Nobel Prize on his mantelpiece and all :)
  94. avatar fastfude
    http://users.wolfcrews.com/toys/vikings/
  95. avatar trepanner
    [quote:de444f3696="fastfude"]Vikings out![/quote:de444f3696]

    Comin' over here, takin' our jobs, bastards.
  96. avatar tinpot anto
    I blame the Gaels.
  97. avatar feline1
    If by "solving it" you mean "giving us a pretend parliament and 100k's in expense account on the proviso that we don't MURDER you (well, not very much, anyways)" then yes, wee Gerry and big Ian "solved" it.
  98. avatar fastfude
    [img:760fae01ff]http://icanhascheezburger.wordpress.com/files/2008/02/funny-pictures-cute-viking-cat.jpg[/img:760fae01ff]
  99. avatar tinpot anto
    Up The Provisos!
  100. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:f5a0c3192c="tinpot anto"]Well the fire could have been allowed to go out if the reforms instigated by O'Neill et al were allowed to come to fruition.

    My point is that he really doesn't deserved remembered as a "peacemaker" by any standards. the only person who can claim that title with any validity in my book is John Hume but he's got his Nobel Prize on his mantelpiece and all :)[/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    Whether he deserves to be remembered for the last year of his life is one thing, but, considering his deal with Sinn Fein has probably "made peace", I'm not sure where you're going.

    As for fires going out....I don't know, what do you reckon? Seems a bit Guardian reader to me.....it's all very well saying, as you have, that a patriotic nationalism was shoe-horned in to the civil rights movement, but who's to say that if it wasn't shoe-horned in, it would have disappeared?

    The fact of the matter is that there were an amount of people who held to that ideal of a united Ireland, and who didn't just want British rights within the united kingdom.......there's no reason to suggest that those people would have been happy with British rights, and thus that the entire ideal of a united ireland would have just disappeared.

    and, no doubt, while that ideal did exist, there would have been those of the opposite view who were vociferous, and occassionally violent, in opposing it.

    As for John Hume, he may well have facilitated peace making, but peace can only be made between two factions who aren't at peace, surely.

    It's people at war who have to make peace, not people who are already at peace.

    if you catch my drift.

    No doubt this will turn into a mad big debate, and I'll regret using my last post to start it, and thereafter being unable to continue it, but sure there ye go.

    I blame the pseudo history of the early horslips albums, fire that intil ye.

    gee whizz, I must edit this in response to Mr Best below.

    [quote:f5a0c3192c]Chi-Lite wrote:

    Whether he deserves to be remembered for the last year of his life is one thing, but, considering his deal with Sinn Fein has probably "made peace", I'm not sure where you're going.

    Ignoring the fact that 'peace' was made with the Good Friday Agreement which had the full support of the vast majority of the Northern Irish nation and was firmly ballsed by Paisley and Adams by not abiding by the wishes of the people.[/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    And when did Adams not accept the Good Friday agreement????

    [quote:f5a0c3192c]

    Chi-Lite wrote:
    The fact of the matter is that there were an amount of people who held to that ideal of a united Ireland, and who didn't just want British rights within the united kingdom.......there's no reason to suggest that those people would have been happy with British rights, and thus that the entire ideal of a united ireland would have just disappeared.

    You know I had completely forgotten about that 'Fact'[/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    yes, i can see that you have. It's a fact nonetheless.

    [quote:f5a0c3192c]Chi-Lite wrote:
    and, no doubt, while that ideal did exist, there would have been those of the opposite view who were vociferous, and occassionally violent, in opposing it.

    Because it's a well known 'fact' that all disagreements can only be solved with violence.[/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    Which is irrelevant to the point I was making, i.e. not that that violence would have solved any agreements, but that it would have been quite likely to have occured.

    [quote:f5a0c3192c]Chi-Lite wrote:
    As for John Hume, he may well have facilitated peace making, but peace can only be made between two factions who aren't at peace, surely.
    It's people at war who have to make peace, not people who are already at peace.

    A 'war' can only be a 'war' when the people involved have the support of the people they are fighting for. Anything else is terrorism. I doubt at any point in the history of the troubles there was ever a majority of people on either side pro the idea of killing people. So it was never their place to either make war or to stop war[/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    Fair enough if we also accept that lots of other "wars" aren't really wars. Yet nevertheless, again irrelevant. Change the word to "conflict, if you like, the point remains the same. or even leave out the last sentence and let it remain that, [quote:f5a0c3192c]peace can only be made between two factions who aren't at peace, surely[/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    [quote:f5a0c3192c]Chi-Lite wrote:
    if you catch my drift.

    yes and it smells like poo [/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    What a really ridicuous reply.
    [quote:f5a0c3192c]
    the reason what you are saying is a load of poo is that from day one of the Troubles all the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland wanted was for the Political Leaders from both sides to sit down, talk to each other and sort the damn thing out.
    Paisley and Adams are more to blame than most in prolonging that from happening.[/quote:f5a0c3192c]

    You mean Adams was to blame in that Paisley, Molyneaux, Trimble, and successive British governments refused to talk to him?

    I accept your general point, however, the unwillingness to talk has been demonstrably one-sided, and is mostly caused by the bloody minded determination to apply labels such as "terrorism" to people, of which you yourself are guilty.

    So it's also your fault.

    [i:f5a0c3192c]And even you can see that to being one of them 'Facts' you are so fond of spouting[/i:f5a0c3192c]

    And "seeing something to being a fact" is almost unintelligible. As is "prolonging something from happening".
    Last edited on , 4 times in total.
  101. avatar tinpot anto
    well them Tuatha De Danaan have a lot to answer for, especially that fiddly dee version of Hey Jude.
  102. avatar Mickeycolensoparade
    'Ho ho, sometimes I think it should be called fastFeud,'

    he quipped to an onlooker...
  103. avatar George W Best
    [quote:815199c5a3="Chi-Lite"]
    Whether he deserves to be remembered for the last year of his life is one thing, but, considering his deal with Sinn Fein has probably "made peace", I'm not sure where you're going. [/quote:815199c5a3]
    Ignoring the fact that 'peace' was made with the Good Friday Agreement which had the full support of the vast majority of the Northern Irish nation and was firmly ballsed by Paisley and Adams by not abiding by the wishes of the people.
    [quote:815199c5a3="Chi-Lite"] As for fires going out....I don't know, what do you reckon? Seems a bit Guardian reader to me.....it's all very well saying, as you have, that a patriotic nationalism was shoe-horned in to the civil rights movement, but who's to say that if it wasn't shoe-horned in, it would have disappeared? [/quote:815199c5a3]
    Or it might have turned into a magical donkey who could poop out freedom giving creme eggs?
    [quote:815199c5a3="Chi-Lite"] The fact of the matter is that there were an amount of people who held to that ideal of a united Ireland, and who didn't just want British rights within the united kingdom.......there's no reason to suggest that those people would have been happy with British rights, and thus that the entire ideal of a united ireland would have just disappeared. [/quote:815199c5a3]
    You know I had completely forgotten about that 'Fact' :roll:
    [quote:815199c5a3="Chi-Lite"] and, no doubt, while that ideal did exist, there would have been those of the opposite view who were vociferous, and occassionally violent, in opposing it. [/quote:815199c5a3]
    Because it's a well known 'fact' that all disagreements can only be solved with violence.
    [quote:815199c5a3="Chi-Lite"] As for John Hume, he may well have facilitated peace making, but peace can only be made between two factions who aren't at peace, surely.
    It's people at war who have to make peace, not people who are already at peace. [/quote:815199c5a3]
    A 'war' can only be a 'war' when the people involved have the support of the people they are fighting for. Anything else is terrorism. I doubt at any point in the history of the troubles there was ever a majority of people on either side pro the idea of killing people. So it was never their place to either make war or to stop war
    [quote:815199c5a3="Chi-Lite"] if you catch my drift. [/quote:815199c5a3]
    yes and it smells like poo
  104. avatar rentaghost
    wouldn't it be great if it was like this all the time....?
  105. avatar George W Best
    Dear Chi-lite
    to avoid going into another line by line thing, the reason what you are saying is a load of poo is that from day one of the Troubles all the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland wanted was for the Political Leaders from both sides to sit down, talk to each other and sort the damn thing out.
    Paisley and Adams are more to blame than most in prolonging that from happening.

    And even you can see that to being one of them 'Facts' you are so fond of spouting, wha'?
  106. avatar feline1
    I think we did this thread better here:
    http://z3.invisionfree.com/Stay_Beautiful/index.php?showtopic=4508
  107. avatar rentaghost
    ooh I haven't been on SB for ages. Must have a trawl through it sometime soon.
    Are they still having the eternal Israel v Palestine debate?
  108. avatar feline1
    nah haven't seen much of that one for a while.

    Tony Maggs is providing us with much insight for the brothels of Bangkok, however :)
  109. avatar George W Best
    Dear Chi-lite,
    the British governement were one of the sides that should have sat down to talk I was referring to.

    That's what the majority of the people ever wanted, for all sides to sit down and talk, and you know what, despite Paisely and Adams blustering and promises to their fanbases that's exactly what ended up happening. It's almost as if it was the only proper course of action all along! Who'd a thunk it, wha'?
  110. avatar George W Best
    [quote:5cdfdcba95="Chi-Lite"]
    I accept your general point[/quote:5cdfdcba95]

    Ergo I win as I do not accept anything you have said so for to be anything other than utter tosh, piffle and balderdash.
  111. avatar The enfant terrible
    Why does no one ever mention Jim Allister, his daughter went to my school, very dead on she was, pity he's a fat slabbering bast'ard.
  112. avatar KingNeon
    Please lets not, if I see his smug, self-staisfied face on my TV once more I may be sick
  113. avatar Chi-Lite
    I actually feel cat for going back to this, but the patronising tone you adopt means I can't help myself sugar pie honey bunch.

    [quote:4994b6592f="George W Best"]Dear Chi-lite,
    the British governement were one of the sides that should have sat down to talk I was referring to.

    That's what the majority of the people ever wanted, for all sides to sit down and talk, and you know what, despite Paisely and Adams blustering and promises to their fanbases that's exactly what ended up happening. It's almost as if it was the only proper course of action all along! Who'd a thunk it, wha'?[/quote:4994b6592f]

    I, of course, agree that all sides should have had discussions a long time ago. the point, however, that I have made twice, and which you seem to have a blind spot about, is that one of those elements whom you have been blaming for refusing to talk, have demonstrably not refused to talk, indeed have been explicitly and demonstrably requesting talks for nigh on twenty years. Thus making the point you raise above totally invalid, lop-sided, and fence sitting wishy-washy ballix.

    [quote:4994b6592f]for all sides to sit down and talk, and you know what, despite Paisely and Adams blustering and promises to their fanbases that's exactly what ended up happening[/quote:4994b6592f]

    I think you will find, or would know, if you knew anything whatsoever about the situation on which you wax lyrical (notwithstanding unintelligible phrases and mis-spellings of "government"), that Gerry Adams has NEVER blustered about refusing to talk to people, as you seem to think he has.

    Thank you. Apologies for raking over yesterdays news, but I blame your posting limits, roger.

    Now carry on. :-D
  114. avatar George W Best
    Dear Chi-Lite,
    Mr Adams blustered about the IRA never giving up their arms did he not?
    Then guess what they did!
    Mr Paisley blustered about never sitting down with Sinn Fein to talk did he not?
    Then guess what he did!

    Sure the Brits were the main stumbling block in starting talks at the beginning of the Troubles. When this sort of thing happens you have two choices, peaceful protest or violent protest.
    Guess which options your two boyfriends opted for, wha'?

    The political tactics employed by Paisley and Adams in their careers caused an awful lot of unnecessary pain and suffering in this country, and if you 'admire' them then you sir, are foolish.

    Wha'?
  115. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:aa44650819="George W Best"]Dear Chi-Lite,
    Mr Adams blustered about the IRA never giving up their arms did he not?
    Then guess what they did!
    Mr Paisley blustered about never sitting down with Sinn Fein to talk did he not?
    Then guess what he did!

    Sure the Brits were the main stumbling block in starting talks at the beginning of the Troubles. When this sort of thing happens you have two choices, peaceful protest or violent protest.
    Guess which options your two boyfriends opted for, wha'?

    The political tactics employed by Paisley and Adams in their careers caused an awful lot of unnecessary pain and suffering in this country, and if you 'admire' them then you sir, are foolish.

    Wha'?[/quote:aa44650819]

    I'm not sure I'll bother replying to this, given the tone.

    Suffice to say that you, overleaf, blamed Paisley and Adams for not sitting down to talk..... it is merely that that I disagreed with, and I think you now accept that. Also that I have never advocated violent protest over peaceful, and that I made it clear many many posts ago that the point I made about "peacemakers" referred to recent events, i.e. that despite what they did in the past, indeed I even clearly stated that they have no doubt caused conflict, they did, over the last year, make peace.

    And "your two boyfriends"......... :roll: I believe illustrates the calibre of your commentary, and I wish to have no further correspondence with you. :D .
  116. avatar George W Best
    They are your boyfriends.
    You love them.

    Wha'?
  117. avatar Chi-Lite
    I think the adequate answer to that is














    p[b:6061a0bda7][/b:6061a0bda7]rick. :-D
  118. avatar George W Best
    I know you are but what am I?

    Wha'?

    :-D