Well, I really feel FastFude is teetering on the brink
of becoming FarceFude at the moment,
not least in the light of the threads
about "hooray! another Dangerfields review" and
"Child Abuse jokes - are they valid?"
Both saw an onslaught of vitupertive non-sequitous
drivel, intent on wrenching away perfectly sensible
and serious threads to abuse and ahine.
A signifigant percentage of such antics come
from registered troll logins, with blank
I think it's time to do a Tavis Bickle and wipe these
types off the board.
Fastfude will work best if the users have a valid
contact email in their profile, a proper bio/link
to their website, a photo with their OWN FACE on it...
Otherwise, it communication is hampered since there's
not enough context on who people actually "are",
and this is exploited and abused by trolls.
NIMIC is now gonna be up and running with funding and
salried staff very soon.
There's no chance in hell FastFude will be able to be
involved with things as they are.
GET DOWN FROM YOUR THRONE, FEEL_AHINE_1. Edited by: forkoid at: 4/11/01 9:16:46 am
Down from my *throne*...
... and into the sewer, ewe mean.
I'll see ewe in the sewer darling, don't be late!
- THE STRANGLERS
Rest assured I've read it all and have some very... interesting... thoughts on it all...
I'm pretty sure most of those trolls are the one person.
Look at the distinctive punctuation...hint...and then at the regular user who types....like that....hmmmm?
Who is it Die?
What a fine legal mind! :-)
watch yourself die, i think hes on the touch!
(how pubescent & homophobic is that?!?)
"on the touch"?? that's a new one to me, I must say.
Some Portadown dialect or sthg?
I really am intrigued to know who "steekie wee ballex" is, actually?
I mean, for someone to be homophobic to the extent that they
are running round RANTING about one reply to a question I made
in front of half-a-dozen people in an Internet chatroom many weeks
ago, when they weren't even *IN* the chatroom at the time, but
instead heard about the "incident" in some "detail" afterwards
(what, like the guy quoted *all 7 words* I typed or sthg!?!) really is
These are the sorts of people who run into the Crow's Nest
wielding base ball bats. :-O
I notice zerotonin has been replaced by Chris Slipgate as a moderator?
Feline...the answers in the post you've just made...you're assuming a lot of things..."they weren't even *IN* the chatroom"..."like the guy quoted"....
I'm saying nothing more leek :P
Allegations are bad m'kay?
A lot of things?
Well, I was just assuming he was telling the truth.
I guess that may be naive of me... :-/
I can't really remember who was in said chatroom like
2 months ago or sthg, fer flippsake.
I'm sure I shall find out in due course.
The Internet is like that...
*cough* er, guys... trolling is a problem? sorry to be pedantic, but half of the above thread was kinda trolling...
The mods are gonna have a bit of a brainstorming sesh next week sometime to think of ways to clean up this town... er, noticeboard.
One question that'll be kicked around is something like "is 10 posts a day better than 100?" and therefore "is ruthless deletion of spurious posts a necessary evil?" Judging by people's outbursts over the kiddie joke debate of late, I think it might be, as y'all sure as hell can't police yourselves, that's for sure.
On a lighter note, indeedy, big welcomes to Chris, taking over from Glendo, in the moderator thing role person.
I really would like to know who "steekie wee ballex" is, though, Roger.
A happy medium would be good, a comedy element is always necessary to keep things fun.
Feline for Gods sake wise up.
People will be thiking I've been hammering right wing views and a "queer bashing philosophy" down your throat. Therefore veryone should read my posts again. I merely followed up on what Headcheese said about your irrelevant posts. Now your some sort of victim and I'm a 'homophobe'. You have no idea how wrong you are. I'm not going to get into an argument explaining why I'm not because you don't even deserve that.
You have a chip on your shoulder, that much is clear. And now your being very subversive and as subtle as a brick with you "Roger...I'd really like to know who Steekie is....??" hint hint
Trying to compromise some current values of Fastfude.
For fricks sake Zerotonin didn't even react this way when he received some 'serious' abuse from Kye90 (?). And here you are trying to warp peoples minds that I have been victimising you. Then paste the offending post right below this message! There weren't any.
I will buzz off for good because quite frankly I couldn't be arsed anymore. I haven't made any troll like messaged toward you.
I mean it seems like a straight person can't even open his mouth to put the word 'homosexual' or 'gay' in a sentence without being branded a fricking Nazi or a homophobe.
Get off your throne indeed.
And wise the frickin bap.
I may reply to any other post on this thread but shortly I'll be out of your hair for good. I don't care that I won't be missed, but know this that I'm not the only person you've single-handedly pissed off out of fastfude. And I wouldn't feel proud either because they're some decent folk with a lot to say.
I'll find out who you are eventually...
As far as the Troll thing goes, I think there have been some people who come on Fastfude and make reasonable points but because it is their first post or whatever they have automatically been lambasted by other people who don't agree with them and basically end up getting called Trolls.
I am not trying to defend any of the people who arrive and start talking sh1te, and I'm not trying to say any particular person has been responsible if what I described above has happened, I'm just making the point that we must be careful on the Troll subject because it would be no good to scare genuine users away after 1 or 2 posts.
We really need an FAQ, for a start. One that explains how internet fora actually work. e.g.: If you post 'my band is the greatest' or 'this band is shyte' you will get abuse. People who post this sort of crap could then be politely directed towards the FAQ.
But this all takes time. Hopefuly 4 or 5 moderators will all be able to devote enough time between them.
Valid email addresses are becoming important too, not least so as the moderators can email folks.
Btw, my thoughts on (specifically) the p@edo lines are that some day there is a real danger that a tabloid will pick up on this. What would happen then?
We would fight them on the beaches!
(except that we don't have a case...)
Photos are very important, I think.
I think regular posters (say people with over 100 posts?)
who don't have photos of their own face should be approached
by moderators and asked about including one.
If there's a practical difficulty, the moderators might
even offer help in scanning one in for them.
This apparently trivial thing would be the single
greatest step forward towards propper communication
in FastFude's 4 year history.
Faces speak more than word's ever will.
As one of the few remaining fudians from the pre-f1 days, I can only offer this opinion:
Photos don't seem to me to be a wonderful idea at all.
Having a pseudonym is part of the pleasure of being here, and as long as Zebulon is contactable through his published email address and speaks freely about his real-world identity, nowt much can go wrong.
If you recall JenL's post on that thread about who you know, there is definitely a case for not being recognized in the street.
To use a wonderful example from Glendo/Zerotonin, he was having a pint with his chums and the rest of his band when a stranger siddled up to him saying: "You're Glendo from Zerotonin aren't you?
Well, you know those posts from Zerotonin Hater?
That was me!", he then siddled back away again.
I know that seems extreme, but it's not really, not with Belfast the eensy size it is.
I know that when I stopped using my photo as my icon last year, people gradually stopped approaching me in bars, and causing awkward and stilted experiences is the street.
And frankly there was a 6 month period back there when I was quite fed up with sitting in Katy's of a Friday night being glanced at knowingly by bunches of teens, as if I was some sort of local celeb.
The way you'll glance at
drug dealer if you're a 15yr old who's just discovered dope.
So aye, my vote is for email addresses and responsibility and against spamming, abuse of facilities and mandatory photos.
The concern raised by James above is one I share. It only takes one fool with a chip on his shoulder and a quiet news week - you'd be amazed at how easy it is to write a scare story for a local tabloid. And believe me, it would not be a lot of fun weathering the subsequent storm.
My feeling on the jokes is that, if people are *genuinely* upset by the references, then it's not worth continuing on a point of principle. And I think it's become clear that
people - decent, dead-on people who make a valuable contribution to the scene - *are* actually upset by them. Others don't really give a f*ck but will use the issue as a stick with which to beat individuals and to undermine this site. The latter can f*ck off. We should look out for the former. Edited by: chris slipgate at: 4/11/01 6:13:49 pm
I guess it's just a question of benefits outweighing drawbacks.
I think if most people have photos,
there will be better communication,
less trolling, less abuse, and a better forum.
Yes, it will be easier to recognise people in the
street, but since most of get up on stages and
perform in public anyway, I don't really see
what the whole anonymity trip is.
People ought to be prepared to stand up & take the consequences
for the posts & music they make in public to some extent.
If you have visible contact details and are prepared to accept that your actions have consequences and then accept those consequences, I see nothing to be derived from a photo other than external identifiability, which is kinda pointless.
What I say here has little bearing on what I say over an open mic on stage, so if someone expects the online
to give them some sort of link to the real, they're gonna be sadly disappointed. Questions about the music I've just performed are infinitely preferable to being told I've been recognized from ff, and then, uh, what....which one of my thousand posts are you gonna wilfully misunderstand at me while I'm burning with post-gig euphoria or having a quiet pint with my wife....?
Not the point however.
Mandatory online photos may well dissuade trolling, but will, most likely, dissuade the casual posting of which we are all so fond.
I did like the idea of the Main Forum, but I still remember its miniscule post quotient, and to me that defeats the purpose.
So if there's a choice, photo or no-photo, perhaps whatever modicum of responsibility still exists in people might let them see it as an option, rather than as something to pointedly say no to, which is an attitude we see displayed so often here.
That is, perhaps, why you and I did it, and why Daithi, Rich9, Rog, Zerotonin, Rosco T, et al. did it too.
I am not advocating anonymity, I'm putting forward the opinion that communicating via avatar can be more effective by allowing those of us who are less communicative in real-life to reinvent that part of themselves and let ourselves be heard.
Plus not all of us have cool sounding names in real-life, so having a tasty e-moniker is very pleasant.
I think ewe're maybe just underestimating the humanising
effect of seeing a real face beside a post.
It works on quite a deep subconscious level.
A lot of the fantastical trolling on here is most likely quite
out of character for the perpetrators - they wouldn't speak
like that to someone's face - and not just cos they'd
be scared to due to consequences, but cos they'd have no
desire to be so ahine to another human.
If I see some ridiculous post by someone with a silly login
and a daft photo of an album cover or sthg beside them,
I'll react a lot worse to it and if I saw a face beside them.
It's the sensory deprivation from extra-textual nuance (which
many researchers would argue actually forms the MAJORITY
of our communication in real life) that leads to troll meltdown.
I don't think photos are a good idea because a lot of people who have interesting things to say won't have a photo of themselves on-line. Look at the ridiculous 'photo' I am using now, it's there because the photo of myself I used to use was taken from Yahoo! Geocities and they are now totally useless. The only photos I know of me on the internet are on that geocities site, therefore I can't use them and I couldn't be arsed going to the trouble of trying to make another site that would host the pictures and allow me to use them on Fastfude. I'm sure a lot of other people have similar problems, so I don't think the photos should be necessary.
I'm kinda caught in the middle on this one, between Zeb and F1. I've had instances of sitting in the boozer with some non-music chums and someone taps me on the shoulder and says "Hi, are you Rog from Fastfude? How's it going, I'm so-and-so". In itself, that's fine and kinda nice to get the recognition, where it all goes wrong is that there is nothing more available to talk about except FF and how someone else has been dissing them/their friends/etc on the boards, and when I'm in the pub with friends, that's usually furthest from my mind. (Don't let that put you off talking to me, btw, I still like to say "Hi" and meet new faces, but don't try ranting about the boards at me, I won't be interested :)
However, I also agree with F1's notions about sensory deprivation. When I sat and thought about it, I realised I do react differently to posts made by identifiable faces than posts made by animated gifs. I don't get as narked by the former when they talk s*it as I do by the latter, and so I'm more readily prepared to engage the former in rational conversation and try to iron things out.
At the end of the day though I would leave it as optional, simply because some people don't want their faces publicised but still have some interesting contributions to make. As for people who just can't get a bit of space to host the image or can't scan it or both, mail me and I can help.
perhaps in conclusion, I personally prefer photos, the only side-affect being the non-conversations it spawns in public.
I do want people to recognise me, it is a small scene after all, and most people tend to wise up a little after having real-life contact with other posters
I agree with the points both of you are making, believe it or not.
I'm not quite sure how to word my actual grumble with mandatory photos, though.
You've both seen how infrequently Zebulon posts now.
Unless it's a point I can get emotionally or intellectually engaged with I don't post, largely because any other response (even one in character for me in the real world) is wholly inappropriate for addition to my permanent record.
So Zebulon just sits in lurker mode reading but not contributing.
That doesn't fully illustrate my point, but I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.
Being forced to adhere to realworld (through photo-id, establishing a brand) values will, in my opinion, just leave people posting much much less.
But it would be GREAT if trolls posted less! :-)
I also think Andrew is very bold.
I would like to see a photo of the Baron's poppa.
I mean does he realise what we're all saying about him?
Gah...another one of those times where you write a reply then just delete it all :/
I think complaining about people coming up to you when drunk and poisoning you with pointless conversation is a bit...um...I dunno.
Sheesh like, I can slobber away for ages if I'm drunk....if it's someone from fastfude then the conversation does tend to be about fastfude/the people on it.
It's the common interest.
Realisticaly, you can't be expecting someone to come up to you, say "Hey, you're so-and-so from fastfude.
Did ya see the match last night?"...can you?
I don't think photos count for much...it's more whether you've met the person before.
As such I reckon getting a fastfude gig night going would be a spiffing idea.
It lets everyone meet everyone else...put names to faces etc.
That'd significantly change the atmosphere I reckon.
I'm willing to help as much as I can...
Oh hang on...I forgot my apathetic nu-metal facade...uh...muh.
Die, the stuff that happened to you is an excellent example of how extreme things can get when your identity becomes public.
GOURMET SEASON 2.
I don't use a photo of myself on ff but most people know who I am anyway, and I really wouldn't want particular fastfuders to recognise me on the street. Not unless I had my trusty spade with me.
Not meaning to be nasty Davis but the chances of anyone seeing you on "the streets" are pretty slim since you live on a different landmass to the rest of us.
At the minute I think it's up to the moderators to run a tighter ship. Cos us plebs quite obviously can't shut up.
I think contact details which can be checked out by the moderators say over a week's period to see if they're real or not is a good idea and if you don't have coherant contact details all your posts should be deleted without warning. If people are making fairly irrelevent posts (like i do usually) you could send us emails to tell us to shut up or we're out. You could
install that password-in-order-to-post-system thing as well and change it all the time so people will have to check the accounts they've given you in order to log in. That might not work but I think automatically deleting people's posts who don't have their emails in their profile is a good idea. I mean you use that system on the reviews board and it seems to work quite well.
I was actually quite upset by that whole incident the other day, I was really dissappointed by some people who I thought were quite sound. Still like I said the internet is not the ideal place to gauge any sort of natural reaction or relationship. And at least I know who to steer clear of now.
Photos? Contact details? Common interests?
Sounds more like a Dating Agency than a Forum.
:-) Edited by: tgmac at: 4/13/01 3:32:41 pm
Tighter ship indeed.
Plans to follow
I'm with Zeb on this one. I don't think photos have anything to add to the communication aspect, which is heavily flawed anyway, and I'd even go so far as to say that more can be revealed about the person thru their choice of photo,animated gif or whatever than by sticking a mugshot up. There are the issues of public identity...as I've said elsewhere I get a fair bit of abusive email, and over the past year this has extended into abusive phone calls.
Mandatory contact details are needed, however, and on a first post I think these should be checked out ...you'd certainly find a lot of trolls and multiple identities would vanish immediately.
Is it possible to make a public e-mail a necessity to post?
That would sort a lot of problems out...
Alternatively you could ban a troll by their e-mail account...if it was a regular using an alt. identity they'd get banned too...
Photos are kinda irrelevant when people know you're a member of a certain band. I mean, if anyone wants to hit me with bricks, bottles and whatnot, all they gotta do is come to a Dangerfields gig and look for the drummer...
So that's why you're learning bass is it? Poor Baron...
Anyway, ezboard are a bit weird about their banning mechanisms. Even I, as the admin, cannot see people's emails or even private message them, if they don't want me to. So unless I contact ezBoard every time I need someone's email address banned, I can't really do much about it. I can get IP numbers ewasy enough, but since most ISPs use DHCP these days, you almost always get a different IP each time you dial up. Added to which, lots of people share the same ISPs, so you'd be banning whole chunks of users, not just individuals...
OK y'all, well, whilst I was away this weekend,
there seems to have been a "moderator clampdown",
so photos or not, at least something's seeming to happen...
Well shall see whether or not it werks....
I just read this thread from 2001. I thought I'd bump it so that you can all see how it was in the old days, when Roger was thinking of a 10-posts limit, and feline1 typed in blank verse (or had a small screen).
I think I passed yer man who runs this whole joint on the street a few weeks back, but I was so star struck I got a simultaneous nose bleed and asthma attack, soiled my front and back and ran crying. True story.