1. avatar Niall Harden
    Fender Jaguar > Boss EQ > Boss Delay > Danelectro Surf and Turf > Danelectro Dan-O-Wah > Boss Super Overdrive > ProCo Rat > Zoom Ultra Fuzz > E-H Small Stone Phaser > DOD Envelope Filter > Marshall Vibratrem > Line6 Delay > Behringer Composer Pro > Hughes and Kettner Tour Reverb

    right. i have an effects loop. how can i use it to make my guitar sound better? Edited by: Niall Harden at: 8/21/02 2:15:50 pm
  2. avatar zebulon
    Use a bass instead.








    ( sorry.
    i have nothing actually constructive to suggest.)
  3. avatar EPK
    Pick three effects and throw the rest out.
    Use the effects loop to put them in and out of the chain.
    That'll make it sound like a guitar again.
    Hold on...it's a Fender Jaguar. Keep the FX...you need 'em.
    Without being facetious, you've too much sh1te in there. Your signal's mangled beyond repair by the time it gets to the end of the chain, the variation in gain depending on what you're using at any one time'll be hard to control, and you could light a small city in power usage.
    Edited by: Eamonn P Keyes at: 8/21/02 1:41:25 pm
  4. avatar Niall Harden
    i agree with you.
    but i can't really play guitar,
    i just enjoy making feedback noises,
    making the tremolo and phaser go in sync
    with a bit of space echo and fuzz,
    etc.

    i want to know which effects should go in the fx loop,
    and in what order / etc...

    anyways,
    there's now a Composer Pro at the end of the chain to nice things up..
  5. avatar Niall Harden
    this is enjoyable, i've spent all morning trying to make nice usable guitar sounds.
    yesterday Gareth "Glzebub" Lauder of Iden Gren "fame" bought a Behringer V Amp, and the sound of the Jaguar thru its fake Bassman has inspired me to clean up my act, y'see, and thusly i've decided to start using the drive channel of the amp, with the gain down fairly low so it's just breaking up, and i've also been experimenting with turning the compressor off (shock!). i seem to be making some progress, but the fx loop still confuzzles me :-(
  6. avatar no coffee no workee
    the fx loop is better for rack mounted gear with a floor board as opposed to stomp pedals.
    It will expect to receive a much higher i/p voltage than the one from the guitar and pedals.
    Having said that Courtney Pine's guitar player prefers the tone that way and links two combos using the fx loop send and returns.
    Only problem is the earth loop hum if the two amps don't see exactly the same ground.
    Be warned!
    The order you put them in is really up to you.
    If you want to wah your distorted sound put the wah after the distortion and vice versa.
    Ideally put the tone/signal shapers first (wah/envelope filter) then the multitude of distortions/overdrives, then the delays/modulators, then the eq to help put some tone back, then the reverb.
    don't bother with the composer as all that distortion will have levelled your signal out anyway.
    Take time setting up the level on each pedal so that the volume doesn't jump from one to the next.
    The composer in theory will do that, but with all the level changes it will probably just choke the life out of your tone and signal.
    Maybe...
    Edited by: no coffee no workee at: 8/25/02 3:51:00 pm
  7. avatar glzebub of four star
    yeah i'm Gareth "Glzebub" Lauder of **** "fame".

    mr.keyes i play a proper guitar (hot-rodded epi lp standard)
    i use but one modulation an ibanez echomachine, is it worthwhile Fx-looping this sole pedal in the name of tone?
    there's a marshall bluesbreaker mk2, a proco vintage rat and a morley wah/vol in there as well into a Trace C50.

    i have oft' berated said mr. niall "elvis" harden on said ridiculous no. of pedalz. the boyz just a nutter. and wetter than a haddock's bathing costume! ha! ha!

    behringer vamps rock at £120! plus the guy at baird will speak canadian at you for free!
    seriously tho'...
  8. avatar EPK
    Yer tone'll be better a bit, but not that you'd notice outside of recording at lowish volume and cleanish tone. Live, it won't really matter.
  9. avatar glzebub of four star
    i thank you.
  10. avatar Suki Monster
    jeezuz niall with that many pedals isnt it a nightmare playing on small stages such as the front page ect?I remember a time when I used 6 or 7 pedals which meant I was trapped in the corner for the whole set which was a complete nightmare.
  11. avatar Niall Harden
    yes. it bloody is a nightmare.

    currently the Envelope Filter and Phaser are on the subs bench

    but only cos i can't afford batteries :-)
  12. avatar Suki Monster
    Session do a decent wee power pack for £30 but I suppose u would probably need two with that amount of pedals.
  13. avatar Niall Harden
    i have
    :rollin

    the phaser needs a jack in tho, and the envelope filter's in is in te bootom left corner !?!?
  14. avatar antojasper
    I bought a power pack but then noticed that all my pedals inputs had differing polarities and connecting jacks, whereas my power pack had one type of jack.

    Listen to Eamonn and ditch as many pedals as you can.

    Patch leads may be cheap but they are awful quality, add up a lot of them and it's a wonder you get any signal at all.

    Less is definitely more - you can make incredible variations in sound simply by varying the order in which three pedals are placed.

    The difference between flanged distortion and distorted flange is quite significant, and the reason why I don't like effects boards or rackmounts.

    The Man Speak Truth.

    Also Keep your Wah-Wah in the direct line from your guitar, I disliked the sound of it in my loop.

    It seem to have a longer sweep but less depth.



    Edited by: antojasper at: 9/26/02 1:24:17 pm
  15. avatar Niall Harden
    how am i supposed to change them round live?!
    i think i might (one day) get a VHT Valvulator :-)
  16. avatar antojasper
    All good intentions considered in the service of musical experimentation and sonic arfunculation, but it is physically impossible to click on more than one pedal at a time anyway.
    At least without falling over (I have tried)

    Having 7 pedals just means that clicking them on and off as required throughout a set would probably leave you without any time to actual play the guitar, to which they are attached.

    further more the hundreds of possible combinations of these pedals in on/off settings, their relative positions, to be further enhanced by their own knobs renders the process unimaginably complex.

    Seriously work with groups of 3 in various orders until you can make sense of what you are doing.
  17. avatar Niall Harden
    we play more than one song per set.
    each song likes its own noise.
    to have a different set of three pedals for each song is ahine.
    i like to twiddle their knobs and switch them on and off.
    it'd be a lot harder if they weren't there.

    innit.
  18. avatar antojasper
    If you ever managed to achieve the same settings for the same song in 2 different gigs I'd be very surprised.

    A more likely scenario is a few minutes of frustrating checking between each song.
    It's the audience who will suffer for this and, take it from me, they don't suffer anything very long.

    But you actually have 2 delays and at least 3 distortion pedals.
    If you aren't going to be precise about how you set them up then I'd just get a good effects board, where you can save the settings.
  19. avatar EPK
    It's not that every song needs that degree of fx, it's just that you think they do. The accumulation of pedals is a phase(!) most guitarists go through, before they eventually decide to stop f**king around and play the instrument instead. Keep the pedals for the studio, and use common sense live.
  20. avatar feline1
    I think one does have to strike a balance.

    Feline2 and I both have our own wee submixer on each stage.

    Feline2 has 2 synths going into his,
    with a digital delay pedal on one FX loop,
    and a Zoom multiFX rack thing
    (which is generally set to 'fake leslie' or reverb)
    on the other

    I have 2 synths, a bass guitar and a clavinet going into mine,
    with reverb on one FX loop,
    overdrive and digital delay on a 2nd loop,
    and phaser and stereo chorus on a 3rd loop.
    The bass guitar has it's own flanger and distortion
    directly on its way to the submixer.

    All this is teetering on the brink of impracticality
    and taking too long to set up and most of the rehearsing
    we do actually just seems to involve getting the FX loops right!
  21. avatar Suki Monster
    i got rid of all my effects i now make noises with my guitar.
  22. avatar feline1
    Aye but it's OK for ewe, ewe have a band behind ewe to fill out the spaces.
    There's only two of us cats on stage!
  23. avatar Pete
    What ever happened to the idea of "Three Chords and the Truth", hmmm??

    But if you do feel the need for loads of pedals and weird sounds, why not try the line 6 stomp boxes? We've got the modulation and delay ones and they are very good indeedy, with 4 (3 + tap tempo on the delay unit) user definable patchs.
  24. avatar Niall Harden
    i have the line 6 delay, but the modulation one is crappy

    anyway, three chords and the truth is for w*nkers
  25. avatar feline1
    Feline Dream songs frankly often only DO have 3 chords in them!

    Or 2 chords!

    Or aren't based around "chords" at all.
    (eg tomorrow night will be the werld premiere of
    our neu ambient pop song classic WATCHING THE SNOW,
    which if I am nat mistaken, floats simply in a static
    harmonic drone which is rooted in G7(add 6 & maj7 & 9)
    with a mere waft of aug4 (ie A major) at the very end.)

    Instead they are more often based around TIMBRE
    and thus ewe need the right sound generating and processing
    equipment there on stage to get the timbres ewe need.
  26. avatar EPK
    I always get my timber from the wholesale place up off the Crumlin Road.
  27. avatar feline1
    Aye, I heard their "thick as a plank" slogan
    struck a chord with ewe...
    ;)
  28. avatar Niall Harden
    JAGUAR >> WAH >> OVERDRIVE >> FUZZ >> LINE6 >> AMP
    FX SEND >> EQ >> DD-3 >> COMPRESSOR >> RAT >> TREMOLO >> PHASER >> AMP

    (and another amp (Hughes and Kettner) from the line6 set to slightly breaking up, but quieter than the Fender)


    i don't have enought guitar leads to test this, but it sounds reasonable?
  29. avatar ClayPeterFace
    that's more sensible, but do you not find that wah sounds better after distortion? Much more RATM/Hendrix sounding.

    and i'd put the compressor in the distortion chain rather than the fx loop, but that's just me.
  30. avatar Niall Harden
    aye, i'm not sure about the compressor yet,
    but i definitely prefer wah before dist...

    let's just say i'm not reaaallly going for a hendrix sound
    ;)
  31. avatar ClayPeterFace
    i just find wah before distortion is far too subtle, even if you're not going for a guitar sounding guitar sound, wah at the end of a signal will give you more of a filter sweep type effect, can be very boards of canada.

    y'see again i come back to the gt-6 fing! effects can be swapped around at the touch of a button, no getting down on yer knees and unplugging patch leads! but i don't think i'm gonna sell you on this...
  32. avatar feline1
    Currently in my live rig, I have my flanger before my fuzz on my bass guitar...
    ...it sounds clawws - rather than just making this bloody jet-plane swoosh over everything, ewe get this lovely intense ripply squirls poking out through the fuzz.
  33. avatar antojasper
    I agree fully that effects boards are heinious fatulates.
    They have been all been designed by ex-members of Europe and only function correctly when you play a Guitar made by Ibanez or Jackson (argh!).

    But a few effects are good I have whittled mine down to a Boss Tremelo, Jim Dunlop Wah, DOD Flanger.
    My amp has two channels and a "boost" function for three different levels of distortion and reverb all controlled by a foot pedal.

    This is good and you can get loads of noises.
  34. avatar Vikesha Stanislaus
    Niall, seriously..........
    With an amp,fuzz, delay and guitar you could do good stuff.
    Use your fingers and dont worry about those feckin effects so damn much.


    Its about what youre playin, not how you go about playin it that matters.
    Thats the only advice im gonna give you.
    You dont need those effects to create a certain feel to your music.
    If you wanna be playing shoegazing stuff (example) you need to work on arrangements more than worrying about effects.
  35. avatar Niall Harden
    i very simply don't agree with you.
    at all.

    sorry.

    modulation?
    tremolo?
    there's nothing like the sound of two delays at once,
    and my ultra fuzz sounds and is set totally different to the RAT, which in turn is totally different from the Super Overdrive.
    two amps are better than one.
    several guitars are better than one.
    i like compression,
    i like wah,

    ETC


    (example: feline1, you don't need all those synths, why don't you just get an MS2000 and be done with it?)
  36. avatar feline1
    Indeed - ewe could blindfold me and play any one of the synths we own (Juno60, Jupiter4, polysix, sixtrak, CS01, viscount bass pedals, transcendent 2000, JX3P, EMT10, QY10.......) and I could tell ewe which one it was. They all are different instruments, with different sounds and different uses. Ditto for all the FX we have.
  37. avatar Vikesha Stanislaus
    Then again, The Feline Dream *are* a *valid* synth band.
  38. avatar mintcf
    Ok, lets discuss this anti-Jaguar thing. What the hell is that all about? What kinda Jaguars have you lot played that you rate so poorly?
    Anyway, an interesting experiment might be to keep distortions/fuzz boxes seperate from the effects. Here's a suggestion :

    Jaguar / Boss EQ / Surf + Turf / Danelectro Dan-O-Wah / Boss Super Overdrive / ProCo Rat / Zoom Ultra Fuzz - amp

    Effects send - Boss Delay / E-H Small Stone Phaser / DOD Envelope Filter / Marshall Vibratrem / Line6 Delay - Effects return.

    Having said all that, the best advice I can give is to EXPERIMENT. Whatever sounds good to you = what is right.
  39. avatar andy graham
    might i suggest

    http://www.loop-master.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=118&osCsid=70cf6b3ddcd204be885ad915bdd5a0d3


    or make one yourself! and get some oxygen free wire and make your own patch cables! or buy oxygen free patch cables, bit more money but reduce tone loss
  40. avatar tenrabbits
    Before people start thinking they need to use 'oxygen-free high-density blah blah' leads.. please realise that expensive interconnects (yes - even for posh hi-fis) are the biggest load of money for old rope you'll spend..

    Make sure they're well soldered at the connectors and there's no breaks, and anything else is completely unnecessary..
  41. avatar tinpot anto
    F*ck me, who's that antojasper character, he strikes me as some sort of w*nker.?
  42. avatar Declan
    Is it me or did nearly 3 years pass between postings in this thread???

    pre andygupts
  43. avatar Pete
    Yes

    Although it feels like closer to 10 years

    Where's the "I'm getting old" icon??
  44. avatar tinpot anto
    I love all the excitement about these fab new line 6 jobbies and wow! a V-amp!

    People from the past are sooo out of date! :roll:
  45. avatar tenrabbits
    It's like the dead coming back to haunt us.
  46. avatar Speed Demon
    [quote:de61a1ef02="tinpot anto"]F*ck me, who's that antojasper character, he strikes me as some sort of w*nker.?[/quote:de61a1ef02]

    And?
  47. avatar tinpot anto
    some things don't change that quickly 8)
  48. avatar eazy_rider
    Just to add my opinion,

    Guitar - gain stages - wah - to amp

    In amp FX loop: all time-based FX (in whatever order u like)

    Gives the 'best', most noise-free result.

    e_r
  49. avatar Numbnut Sounds
    Take note of the "intricate" fx layout of the one and only ANGUS YOUNG!!

    All take note!!

    [img:f84dde8b4e]http://guitargeek.com/rigs/img/a/angus_acdc_2000.gif[/img:f84dde8b4e]
  50. avatar eazy_rider
    Amen to that!
  51. avatar lurgan liar
    used to gig with a Boss GT-6 ...now i gig with ....well my amp and the footswitch ...

    basically get rid of all the shit and u'll start to sound good ...

    i tried every possible way of connecting the gt-6 up to my amp ...1 cable, 2 cables, 4 cables into the fx loop ....no matter what i tried ...for some reason i was gettin some crazy feedback which was just nasty ...tried to EQ this out of it ..used the noise suppressors...no joy...so in the end i decided i had absolutely no need for half the stuff on the peal board.

    now i use 2 channels on the amp and i'm gonna buy a bluesbreaker of some description and a wah wah ...there are delays on the amp which i can use...

    whats that old sayin ... sometimes less is more???
  52. avatar feline1
    You when you die,
    do you think all your old EZboard posts flash before you?
    And God comes and makes you correct all the spelling mistakes in them?
  53. avatar Numbnut Sounds
    Just to resurrect this....

    Best place to put a Wah?...if you use the drive channel on your amp instead of Distortion/overdrive pedals

    At the moment i just use Chorus, Phase, Wah but i use the drive channel and reverb on my amp (blues deluxe). I will also soon have a new tape delay style pedal

    I just have my pedals "in line", not using the FX loop at all

    How would you line these up?
  54. avatar exitonline
    Delays, reverbs etc should generallly be put into your effects loop, especially on a valve amp to allow for a cleaner signal and greater control of the output of the delays etc using the mix control on the FX loop. This is due to the fact that valve amps normally have a different valve stage for the FX loop resulting in a cleaner signal and a way to keep as much of the sound of the amp intact rather than the sound of the pedals.

    If you put a delay pedal straight into a valve amp, especially a high gain amp the delays will generally cause a mess of a signal because you are delaying the signal going into the amp which is then being amplified in turn by alll the different valve stages of the amp resulting in more delays than initially set via the delay pedal, due to the delays being amplified further and further by each valve.

    Wah pedals should generally always come first in line (from guitar) in front of the amp. Chorus and phasers after the wah. Like so:

    Guitar > Wah > Phaser > Chorus > Amp (delays/verb in amp FX loop)
  55. avatar Numbnut Sounds
    the reverb is on my amp, like the drive....make any difference?

    Also, there doesnt seem to be a FX Loop mix or level on the amp
  56. avatar penthouserehersal
    shouldnt make a oz of difference
    keep your delay in the loop
  57. avatar tinpot anto
    I've always found the best tactic is to stick everything in the loop except the wah or overdrive/distortion pedals.

    Problem is you need one more lead, and I keep losing them.

    What your man said about delays being messed up by the valve staging sounds class.
  58. avatar chrisjedijane
    [quote:336fa7d644="exitonline"]
    If you put a delay pedal straight into a valve amp, especially a high gain amp the delays will generally cause a mess of a signal because you are delaying the signal going into the amp which is then being amplified in turn by alll the different valve stages of the amp resulting in more delays than initially set via the delay pedal, due to the delays being amplified further and further by each valve.[/quote:336fa7d644]

    I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense! It won't cause more delays at all.

    If you use a delay pedal before the preamp stage, your delays will sound a little more indistinct as the amp reacts to the decreasing level of the repeats - on a good valve amp, it'll become less distorted with each subsequent repeat as it's quieter. With the delay in the loop, it'll sound really clean as it's delaying the distorted signal and the preamp doesn't have anything to do with it.

    Personally I don't like delay in the loop, as it's too clean.