1. avatar RAAP Management
    From Portadown News Editor, courtesy of the Mirror.

    "Another week, another dangerous paedophile on the loose. The fact that Robert Wallace is 78 years old and has absconded twice from his latest probation order is proof enough that our whole approach to this problem is hopelessly wrong. MASRAM, the multi-agency body tasked with managing sex offenders after their release, aims to rehabilitate and reintegrate people safely back into the community. This is an impossible task. Prison and probation rarely rehabilitate anyone and sex offenders are no exception. No psychiatrist, counsellor or social worker anywhere in the world can point to a single paedophile they have definitely ‘cured’. The bureaucratic psychobabble surrounding the issue serves more to disguise professional failure than to deliver public protection. Faced with this failure, the public often demands round-the-clock monitoring or indefinite imprisonment. But this is also an impossible task. There are currently 550 people on the sex offenders register in Northern Ireland. Watching them all for 24 hours a day would take one third of the PSNI’s total manpower. A prison space costs £125,000 to build and £40,000 a year to run, meaning an upfront cost of £70million plus £20million a year just to keep every presently known sex offender behind bars.

    Other countries realised long ago that if imprisonment, monitoring and rehabilitation don’t work then more imaginative solutions are required. In America, eight states have introduced laws over the past decade offering chemical castration to convicted paedophiles. Three of these states make the treatment compulsory for repeat offenders and one state also offers the option of physical castration. Similar laws have recently been passed in France, Norway, Denmark, Germany and Israel, where chemical castration is offered as a humane alternative to prison. The treatment involves a weekly or monthly injection of drugs to inhibit testosterone. Studies show that this reduces long term re-offending rates from 43 per cent to just 5 per cent.

    Last month Tony Blair held a strategy meeting in Downing Street to discuss adopting this approach in the UK. Any such move will face strong opposition from public sector vested interests and the knee-jerk human rights brigade. Chemical castration is undeniably a radical policy but existing policies have failed and it is high time we had the courage to admit it."

    :shock: But frankly, why not?
  2. avatar tinpot anto
    A massive study in Denmark showed that taking regular vitamin supplements increases the risk of mortality by as much as 10%.
  3. avatar Chi-Lite
    Daft w[b:1b357f4e28][/b:1b357f4e28]anker

    (Not that I've a better solution like, but still....what a daft w[b:1b357f4e28][/b:1b357f4e28]anker [i:1b357f4e28]in general[/i:1b357f4e28])
  4. avatar zebulon
    It's an interesting fact that castration has little effect on arousal.

    Some research into the the Cutter phenomenon - men who are voluntarily castrated - reveals that they're still getting erections and still having sex, they're just freed from the influence of sex hormones.
  5. avatar feline1
    "People are still having sex" - what a great song that was.

    Yeah i mean, I even met a gay man once who'd had a sex change operation so that he had women's bits instead, and he was STILL having sex! :lol:

    What about all these thousands of underage teens who are having sex too - should they all be chemically castrated until they reach the age of consent? :roll:
  6. avatar zebulon
    Chastity belts with secure padlocks, the keys to which should be held in escrow by a responsible non-paedo adult.
  7. avatar feline1
    such as a clown?

    [img:8375cbe4ff]http://sevenels.net/Flickr/Attack%20of%20the%20Giant%20Crabs.jpg[/img:8375cbe4ff]
  8. avatar zebulon
    Or an zoo-keeper.
    Or a priest.
  9. avatar ryanego
    public mechanical castration would be funnier :-)
  10. avatar zebulon
    My preferred method would be removal of all extremities with which deviant sex acts could be committed.
    Such as the penis, the tongue, arms, and legs below the knee.

    Also noses.
  11. avatar JTM
    Why stop at paedophiles? Why not chemically castrate all sexual or violent offenders? It's a slippery slope, people. Don't listen to this malarky.

    Besides the old guy was in his 70s, I doubt there's much lead in the pencil at that age anyway! And he could still pose a risk, chemically de-nutted or not.

    (EDIT, just noticed the post about legs below the knee. I was unlucky enough to witness some amputee porn the other week. Are we going to have to chemically de-stump people as well?)
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  12. avatar feline1
    you've been watching "The Curse of the Claw", haven't you?
    [img:7dbb5dbf0f]http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/books/ripping-yarns/the-curse-of-the-claw2.jpg[/img:7dbb5dbf0f]
  13. avatar thefatson
    [quote:dff94e8436]"People are still having sex" - what a great song that was. [/quote:dff94e8436]

    Who was that by? As a child I would sing "people are still wearing specs".

    Why not just impale 2nd offence sex offenders/murderers?
    Dostoyevsky managed to convince me that capital punishment was wrong for a while but if you're going to buck kids you don't need punishment, you need gunishment.

    Justice
  14. avatar whosbainejakey
    [quote:3fa99e65d7]Why stop at paedophiles? Why not chemically castrate all sexual or violent offenders?[/quote:3fa99e65d7]
    [img:3fa99e65d7]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/firthie/Judge_dredd.jpg[/img:3fa99e65d7]
    "Dredd ponders this conundrum, yesterday..."

    Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.
  15. avatar 10rapid
    I don't see why reversible chemical castration shouldn't be an option for serial sex offenders to be honest.
    I imagine the poster took the time to sit and type out Mr Emerson's piece in order to provoke some kind of reaction and invite a tirade of derision but cases such as that of Attracta Harran seem to suggest that the present strategies for dealing with dangerous sex offenders fall sadly short of effective.
  16. avatar RAAP Management
    No, he emailed it to me cos I asked him. I thought it was a highly provocative piece and as we seem to be able to debate 'the issues of the day' round here these days, might provide some interesting online jousting.
  17. avatar tinpot anto
    ???

    Fading Comic Hack turns to Paedo's for Material, shocker. :roll:
  18. avatar 10rapid
    [quote:2d1c917044]No, he emailed it to me cos I asked him[/quote:2d1c917044]

    ok no bother...i stand corrected!
    since we can get away with non music topics, who's for a joke thread?
  19. avatar tinpot anto
    My favourite at the moment.



    What sort of biscuits can fly?

    Highlight below for Answer

    [color=black:0237f6ad30]Wee Plane Ones[/color:0237f6ad30]
  20. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:2f42002030="tinpot anto"]???

    Fading Comic Hack turns to Paedo's for Material, shocker. :roll:[/quote:2f42002030]

    :lol:


    Shot!

    Not the first time the speccy monkey boy has scraped the paedo limescale from the bottom of the barrel for a cheap reaction either, sure it's not.
  21. avatar Mexico
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7jVnrfoZD8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcnQDYnGtS8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA07Tw4iEFw

    :-D
  22. avatar RAAP Management
    "Not the first time the speccy monkey boy"

    Christ, you must have been a delight in the playground, Martín! :smt005
  23. avatar Chi-Lite
    That's what he likes me to call him
    :P
  24. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    Youse boys just don't like him, as he has you and your backward westie ways well worked out.
  25. avatar Chi-Lite
    On the contrary, I don't like him because he's a patronising middle class c[b:7f4cb1fc50][/b:7f4cb1fc50]unt who's opinions on a vast array of things amount to no more than controversialist reactionism, with very little personal experience or connection with the issues at hand.

    Like most journalists, I suppose, but the attempted pseudo self-effacing wit just makes it all the worse.

    I suspect he knows very little about us westies, and particularly westies as idiosyncratic as myself. :P
  26. avatar kingmob
    What's wrong with being middle class? Is being working class morally superior?
  27. avatar Chi-Lite
    No.

    Nothings wrong with it in principle. there are certain kinds of irritating behaviour closesly associated with being middle class, as there are many different types of behaviour associated with being working class. Doesn't mean that every middle class person has those traits, or that every working class person has the others.

    But he displays those irritating traits most associated with the middle classes, that's all.
  28. avatar tinpot anto
    Ach Smitty, everyone enjoys his witty observations on the foibles of our esteemed public representatives. How we chuckle when he points out a Shinner complaining about police brutality while refusing to condemn punishment beatings, or a Free P. complaining about bigotry against good christians, but after all the fish in the barrel are dead he will insist on this fatuous meandering through the cannon of contraversy with ne'er a spoonful of wit or any meaningful contribution to make. :)

    Apart from that he's a cool looking guy.
  29. avatar RAAP Management
    I've never, ever seen him be self-effacing in print! You must be thinking of someone else.
    People employ journalists like that for the same reason they employ presenters like Stephen Nolan - he brings the punters in whether they love them or loathe them and often because they loathe them. Populist stuff alright but I thought you loved the people? :D
    Anyway, moving on from this 'man-playing', if you put that chemical castration for repeat offenders proposition to a referendum, it would be a fr*gging landslide in favour and everyone knows it.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  30. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    Ack Marty, most of the balls you spout around here is reactionist ballix. Your an erp after all.

    Personally I think, you take the hump with him as he is a Prod that string together an argument that leaves you lot foaming at the mouth, and he has all you boys boxed off for what you are.

    It much easier to deal with the stereotypical prod, isn't it big lad? :lol:
  31. avatar Daithi jasper
    I mostly just love Smitty's use of 'you lot' and 'you boys' like it means something.
  32. avatar Chi-Lite
    :lol: :lol:

    I'm not [i:2c1f1b01af]actually[/i:2c1f1b01af] an irp.

    I don't think him being a snout is anything to do with it. I don't think he spouts particularly unionist or loyalist arguments which I feel the need to argue with.

    I'd call it more "wishy-washy liberal, one side's as bad as the other, but really it boils down to those pesky working class morons" type of balls.

    Which does get my goat, yes. :-D

    But isn't it class how the debates on this forum are so wildly unpredictable.
    We can turn an argument about snow patrol into ATL getting a kicking, and an argument about paedophiles into a character assasination on the journalist who wrote it!

    That's the kind of thing ye want.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  33. avatar tinpot anto
    [quote:5fd6e4cbd9]Cause he's a prod[/quote:5fd6e4cbd9]

    Saints preserve us smitty, that's a cracker!

    So when was the last time anyone gave off about Dunseith, Linda Gilbey or David Ervine?

    Newt is lowest common denominator hack trash. Jeremy Kyle has more claim to the title "Journalist"
  34. avatar kingmob
    [quote:e2c0627bd0="Chi-Lite"]No.

    Nothings wrong with it in principle. there are certain kinds of irritating behaviour closesly associated with being middle class, as there are many different types of behaviour associated with being working class. Doesn't mean that every middle class person has those traits, or that every working class person has the others.

    But he displays those irritating traits most associated with the middle classes, that's all.[/quote:e2c0627bd0]

    As always, a sterling point. With the working class, those traits are usually their chip butty diets, whippet breeding, flat caps, ITV watching, kneecapping their youth and being racists.

    With the middle classes it's usually eating fondue, throwing Pippa Dee parties, wearing sandals, eating muesli, being racist, listening to Pink Floyd and homosexuality.
  35. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    Now Marty if you have read anything that he has done over the last 6 months or watch the TV a bit you'll see that he has went in a big way for those shower of unelected cnuts up at Stormont and how they have been getting away with blue murder for years.

    I'm talking about those well known working class morons in the civil service. oh wait...
  36. avatar Daithi jasper
    homosexuality..

    No the upper class invented that surely.. and every other make believe class ran with it.. and loves it..
  37. avatar kingmob
    Who cares anyway? The big news of today is Charlotte Church is pregnant.
  38. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:0cb777f05e="dirty stevie smitty"]Now Marty if you have read anything that he has done over the last 6 months or watch the TV a bit you'll see that he has went in a big way for those shower of unelected cnuts up at Stormont and how they have been getting away with blue murder for years.

    I'm talking about those well known working class morons in the civil service. oh wait...[/quote:0cb777f05e]

    Yes, but without any kind of analysis of the reasons behind all this. For example, when people talk about how all of our elected representatives are useless, and WONT form a government with each other, while neglecting to mention that only ONE sinlge party refuses to form a government with all the others.

    Sure why not just blame it all on those pesky politicians, they're all as bad as each other.
    Now, when it boils down to it, this might well be true, but it's not what I call political analysis.

    And by the way, i don't work for the civil service. I work in a QUANGO baby!

    that's where it's at.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  39. avatar rentaghost
    I demand that Emerson throws a Pippa Dee party immediately.
  40. avatar tinpot anto
    But sure he must have been feeling a bit ignored this week to get T-ent to post one of his articles up on Fastfude, just to generate a bit of contraversy. I mean the longevity of a career based only on how contraversial one can be must be limited. There are only so many times you can run the circle of Gay adoption, racism (or not..?), paedos and back, before the abortion thing (and career suicide) starts looking more and more promising... :lol:
  41. avatar RAAP Management
    "But sure he must have been feeling a bit ignored this week to get T-ent to post one of his articles up on Fastfude"

    He really, honestly didn't! He's too busy making a documentary about 'My Craigavon' at the minute. No, I'm not joking.
  42. avatar tinpot anto
    Cool, can I be in it?

    No really :-)
  43. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    Come on Anto, your just raging that he makes a couple of quid from his opinions. While you stuck on here, getting jack and in the knowledge that we all think you talk balls. :lol:
  44. avatar RAAP Management
    I'll raise it at the next Masonic Lodge meeting. :D
  45. avatar rentaghost
    Anto you [i:88f2694937]know[/i:88f2694937] that posting articles up online, and listening to Marillion are two of T-ents favourite things to do. Today isn't any different from any other day.
  46. avatar tinpot anto
    Ah but Smitty I get paid for sitting here. :-)

    I'm actually employed by MI5 to alienate potential radicals, by protraying left wing politics as deeply uncool! :lol:
  47. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    I always knew you were a Brit.

    Sure everyone from up the west is nowdays.
  48. avatar thefatson
    Churlotte is preggers?
  49. avatar Daithi jasper
    [quote:530d019a0b]Sure everyone from up the west is nowdays.[/quote:530d019a0b]

    You do know hes lived in Craigavon for years, don't you?
  50. avatar Ratoot
    [quote:b5784d8494]From Portadown News Editor, courtesy of the Mirror.

    "Another week, another dangerous paedophile on the loose. The fact that Robert Wallace is 78 years old and has absconded twice from his latest probation order is proof enough that our whole approach to this problem is hopelessly wrong. MASRAM, the multi-agency body tasked with managing sex offenders after their release, aims to rehabilitate and reintegrate people safely back into the community. This is an impossible task. Prison and probation rarely rehabilitate anyone and sex offenders are no exception. No psychiatrist, counsellor or social worker anywhere in the world can point to a single paedophile they have definitely ‘cured’. The bureaucratic psychobabble surrounding the issue serves more to disguise professional failure than to deliver public protection. Faced with this failure, the public often demands round-the-clock monitoring or indefinite imprisonment. But this is also an impossible task. There are currently 550 people on the sex offenders register in Northern Ireland. Watching them all for 24 hours a day would take one third of the PSNI’s total manpower. A prison space costs £125,000 to build and £40,000 a year to run, meaning an upfront cost of £70million plus £20million a year just to keep every presently known sex offender behind bars.

    Other countries realised long ago that if imprisonment, monitoring and rehabilitation don’t work then more imaginative solutions are required. In America, eight states have introduced laws over the past decade offering chemical castration to convicted paedophiles. Three of these states make the treatment compulsory for repeat offenders and one state also offers the option of physical castration. Similar laws have recently been passed in France, Norway, Denmark, Germany and Israel, where chemical castration is offered as a humane alternative to prison. The treatment involves a weekly or monthly injection of drugs to inhibit testosterone. Studies show that this reduces long term re-offending rates from 43 per cent to just 5 per cent.

    Last month Tony Blair held a strategy meeting in Downing Street to discuss adopting this approach in the UK. Any such move will face strong opposition from public sector vested interests and the knee-jerk human rights brigade. Chemical castration is undeniably a radical policy but existing policies have failed and it is high time we had the courage to admit it." [/quote:b5784d8494]


    This from a guy who once said: "Paedophilia will one day become a socially acceptable fomr of Sexuallity, much that same way as Homosexuality is now"

    Newton Emerson is a total f*ckin Eejit.
  51. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    I do.

    I also know that his black heart longs for West Belfast, and it cannot rest until it comes home.
  52. avatar T Entertainment
    "This from a guy who once said: "Paedophilia will one day become a socially acceptable fomr of Sexuallity, much that same way as Homosexuality is now"

    He didn't. That's very below the belt. A dangerous false charge to lay at anyone. Steady on, like.
  53. avatar tinpot anto
    Err T, he did as you well know, use very similar words, albeit the paraphrasing is not exact.

    I'm sure you can c/p us the exact wording in the brink of an eye, probably it's already waiting on your clipboard.

    :-)
  54. avatar Ratoot
    Ok, basically he said in the IN no less, that since the 1950's Homosexuality has been gradually accepted into mainsttream society and is now generally recognised as a lifestyle choice like any other, and that Paedophilia will eventually do the same.

    I don't have the article to hand, so I'm paraphrasing from an artical published over two years ago.

    Published around the time stopped having any debates or any dealingts whatsoever with Newton.
  55. avatar T Entertainment
    No, it's mishevious misrepresentation. He can't get logged in for some reason but has asked me to post the original article...I have been asked to embolden a section.

    Paedophiles


    If the internet has achieved nothing else it has proved that paedophiles exist in large numbers. I must confess that when child sex scandals started popping up on front pages around 15 years ago I simply didn’t believe a word of it – and no wonder. The satanic ritual abuse accusations that rocked Cleveland in 1987, Orkney and Nottingham in 1989, Rochdale in 1990 and Ayrshire in 1991 were classic mass hysteria. Hundreds of children were abducted from their families by social services, often for years, for no reason at all. In 1995 the official La Fontaine report into the tragedy identified the real culprits as evangelical Christians who “created the climate in which people could believe this sort of thing was happening”. ‘Childwatch’, a Christian-backed charity in Hull, had circulated material to child protection agencies claiming that 4,000 babies a year were sacrificed in satanic rituals. ‘Believe the Children’, an American-backed Christian group, had persuaded several police forces to adopt ludicrous satanic abuse ‘indicators’ which then became guidelines for the fabrication of evidence. For a while the public was sickened by the arrogance and incompetence of the social workers, psychiatrists and self-appointed children’s champions who colluded with what had become, quite literally, a witch-hunt. For a while too the silly notions of psychology’s pseudo-science – especially suppressed and recovered memory – were revealed as the astrology of our age. This was the first thing I thought of when clerical paedophile scandals began to break a decade later and although satanic ritual abuse is quite distinct from other forms of abuse (not least because it doesn’t exist) it is still appropriate to recall those earlier events in Britain. We must never forget the eagerness of so many people and organisations to jump on the child abuse bandwagon. In many ways this situation has only grown more absurd, with campaigning groups now viewing children as the last fashionably oppressed minority. Witness, for example, the latest despicable commercial from the NSPCC with its open suggestion that any child who seems a bit shy is probably getting raped by her dad.

    However there can be no denying the evidence uncovered in Texas three years ago when police raided the offices of Landslide Incorporated, a multi-million dollar child pornography website. Landslide had 250,000 paying subscribers – people who had entered their credit card details into a computer specifically to look at images of abused children. Over 7,000 of those people were British and half have so far been arrested under Operation Ore with around 1,200 convictions secured. In New Zealand the Department of Internal Affairs says the typical culprit is middle class, professional and around 30 years old. In Australia, where prosecutions began this month, four suspects have already committed suicide including a policeman and a prison officer. Many of the accused are teachers and three childcare centres in Victoria have been closed due to charges against their owners.

    [b:c6f4bec325]The Landslide database poses questions that nobody seems prepared to answer. For example, what exactly is paedophilia? The standard explanation is that it is a crime of violence motivated by the desire to have power and control over others. Yet it seems obvious from the varied profile of paedophiles, and from the prevalence and similarity of their behaviour across different countries, that paedophilia is a sexuality. Forty years ago homosexuality was treated as a mental illness and respected psychiatrists experimented with medical ‘treatments’. We now realise this was nonsense and view sexual relationships between consenting adults as a private matter. Paedophilia can never be viewed this way but that is a moral judgement, not a psychiatric diagnosis.[/b:c6f4bec325]
    The policing operations arising from Landslide also raise the question of what we are criminalising. Accessing child pornography is not a victimless crime – children are abused to produce it and this would not happen without a market to consume it. However the pursuit of so many people around the world for accessing paedophile images creates a strong impression that the desire to view such images is itself the crime. This leads quickly to the perception that internet records are being used to determine a suspect’s illicit sexuality.

    Finally, what do we do with the huge numbers of people now being convicted? In every country in the civilised world criminal justice is based on the concept of rehabilitation. Sentences and punishment regimes are intended to reform and so prevent further offences. None of this applies to people whose innate sexuality has placed them outside the law. We can claim with some justification that a burglar will not always be a burglar and that prison might help him to see the error of his ways. But a paedophile will always be a paedophile and no amount of time in prison will make any difference. Occasionally it is suggested that paedophiles be sent to an island colony or offered chemical castration. These suggestions are then dismissed as the right-wing rantings of the hang-em-and-flog-em brigade. But might such solutions, if properly managed, be both safer for and more humane?

    Rather than frightening us with creepy puppets, the NSPCC and others who claim a leading role need to address the very real issues internet child pornography has uncovered. Namely, that paedophilia is a sexuality, that we are approaching the criminalisation of that sexuality, and that we have absolutely no idea what to do about it.
  56. avatar feline1
    Well so what, Foucault noted that pederasty was a popular pursuit in many renowned cultures of old, and its "moral acceptability" simply arising out of a nexus of power relations and cute arses.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  57. avatar Ratoot
    [quote:56fd8b2cda], that paedophilia is a sexuality. ..... Paedophilia can never be viewed this way but that is a moral judgement, not a psychiatric diagnosis. [/quote:56fd8b2cda]


    Wha?
  58. avatar feline1
    yeah and psyciatry is just this neutral monolithic truth that has no relation to the phallogocentric power games of shapeshifting reptiloids AT ALL, innit?

    Excuse me, did the entire corpus of 20th century post-structuralist thought not happen or sthg?
  59. avatar rentaghost
    if you look at one type of sexuality as an illness then there is a legitimate argument for looking at other types of sexuality the same way, which would enable fundies to justify their views on homosexuality. therefore you have to look at it as a moral argument. More subjective, yes, but balanced with a duty of care towards minors, it works ok.

    EDIT:this article does pose questions about the definitions surrounding the offences of rape and statutory rape, though.
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  60. avatar tinpot anto
    Oh does that happen to be NEARLY the same article...?

    Quelle surprise... :-)

    You also are well aware that you have neatly excised a paragraph referring to paedo's walking down the street hand-in-hand with their child lovers.
    [quote:00322a189f]
    Yet it seems obvious from the varied profile of paedophiles, and from the prevalence and similarity of their behaviour across different countries, that paedophilia is a sexuality. [/quote:00322a189f]

    No it's not, which was precisely what motivated me to write to the IN about this very piece when it was published. That is dangerous nonsense.
  61. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    [quote:f89459d123="feline1"].... a nexus of power relations and cute arses.[/quote:f89459d123]

    That is a sexy nexus.
  62. avatar T Entertainment
    Anto, I didn't change anything at all. That's the truth.
  63. avatar sheriffjohnstone
    [quote:a3cdc392b2="tinpot anto"]Oh does that happen to be NEARLY the same article...?

    Quelle surprise... :-)

    You also are well aware that you have neatly excised a paragraph referring to paedo's walking down the street hand-in-hand with their child lovers.
    [quote:a3cdc392b2]
    Yet it seems obvious from the varied profile of paedophiles, and from the prevalence and similarity of their behaviour across different countries, that paedophilia is a sexuality. [/quote:a3cdc392b2]

    No it's not, which was precisely what motivated me to write to the IN about this very piece when it was published. That is dangerous nonsense.[/quote:a3cdc392b2]

    I agree with this entirely
  64. avatar feline1
    [quote:204e5cde1d]That is dangerous nonsense.[/quote:204e5cde1d]

    [img:204e5cde1d]http://www.glgarden.org/foreverman/3.jpg[/img:204e5cde1d]
  65. avatar Portadown News Editor
    This article is posted exactly as it appeared in the Irish News and I must assume that any claim to the contrary is an attempt at cheeky-chappiness to distract attention from being found out.

    The original article is online at the Irish News website and I'll post it if required.

    There are some points I'd like to raise here about the misrepresentation of my views. I have only ever written two articles about this subject, one for the Irish News two years ago and one for the Mirror this week. They both express the same opinion, although the latter focuses on the chemical castration method now being adopted by a wide range of countries. In both articles I suggest that existing forms of dealing with this problem are failing and alternative approaches should be considered. That these approaches are now being adopted in Scandinavian countries as well as the US indicates that a consensus on the need for change has now crossed the left-right political divide.

    But more mysteriously, I don't understand how people who apparently don't read my articles can get so worked up about them - unless they actually are reading them, in which case they don't seem to understand them. I'm sure this misunderstanding isn't intentional...
    Last edited on , 1 times in total.
  66. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    Anto and Ratoot just got pwnd, as the kids would say.
  67. avatar Ratoot
    I didn't say I didn't read your articles Newt.

    You will notice that this is my first dealings with you since said IN article.

    My beef with the article is not the bit that Tent highlights but rather this bit:



    [quote:008bd0897c]However the pursuit of so many people around the world for accessing paedophile images creates a strong impression that the desire to view such images is itself the crime. This leads quickly to the perception that internet records are being used to determine a suspect’s illicit sexuality. [/quote:008bd0897c]

    As agian, this assumes that paedophilia is a sexuality that eventually, as you pointed out about homosexuality, will become a "Lifestyle Choice".
  68. avatar barrypeak
    You know...
    I've been thinking about this thread and the one about the new ash single and this is my conclusion.
    There are some things Northern Ireland does well and some it doesn't.
    That is all.
  69. avatar feline1
    [quote:6ae8fca1fa="barrypeak"]You know...
    I've been thinking about this thread and the one about the new ash single and this is my conclusion.
    There are some things Northern Ireland does well and some it doesn't.
    That is all.[/quote:6ae8fca1fa]

    Aye, do they not have under- and post-graduate level courses in gender studies, post-structuralist theory and suchlike at Queen's and the University of Ulster? :-D

    [img:6ae8fca1fa]http://www.marxists.org/glossary/people/f/pics/foucault.jpg[/img:6ae8fca1fa]
    [i:6ae8fca1fa]Foucault, dead and loving it, yesterday[/i:6ae8fca1fa]
  70. avatar Portadown News Editor
    The point raised about scanning internet records (which was certainly relevant in an article about Operation Ore) was simply a question of fact: does this constitute criminalising a sexuality? There is no point speculating that paedophilia might be a sexuality without addressing the legal consequences of outlawing a sexuality, as Rentaghost mentioned in her post above.

    It seems to me that the 'predictable hysteria' on display here comes from those who react to any analysis of this problem by screaming "paedo-lover!" then going into a sulk.
  71. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    [quote:6a0bbc6239="Ratoot"]

    [quote:6a0bbc6239]However the pursuit of so many people around the world for accessing paedophile images creates a strong impression that the desire to view such images is itself the crime. This leads quickly to the perception that internet records are being used to determine a suspect’s illicit sexuality. [/quote:6a0bbc6239]

    As agian, this assumes that paedophilia is a sexuality that eventually, as you pointed out about homosexuality, will become a "Lifestyle Choice".[/quote:6a0bbc6239]


    Uh? where did he point out that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice and are you suggesting that it is?
  72. avatar Ratoot
    [quote:e8955a5d44]Uh? where did he point out that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice and are you suggesting that it is?[/quote:e8955a5d44]

    Read the whole article.
  73. avatar Portadown News Editor
    Indeed. Nowhere in either article did I say homosexuality was anything other than a natural sexuality. The Irish News article simply raises the possibility that we are thus entering a legal, moral and social quagmire if paedophilia turns out to be a natural sexuality as well.

    It appears that Ray has written about what he [i:e683c8cfb0]assumes [/i:e683c8cfb0]my views to be, rather than what I have stated them to be. This happens all the time. Over at Tangled Web, arch-unionist David Vance regularly describes me as a wet lefty liberal.
  74. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    [quote:0a73362324="Ratoot"][quote:0a73362324]Uh? where did he point out that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice and are you suggesting that it is?[/quote:0a73362324]

    Read the whole article.[/quote:0a73362324]

    I did.
  75. avatar Ratoot
    Listen, it's hard enough to get some people on this board to accept Homosexuality as a an acceptable sexuality never mind trying to convince them that Paedophilia comes anywhere near.
  76. avatar Ratoot
    [quote:650a9bfa43]Forty years ago homosexuality was treated as a mental illness and respected psychiatrists experimented with medical ‘treatments’. We now realise this was nonsense and view sexual relationships between consenting adults as a private matter.[/quote:650a9bfa43]
  77. avatar rentaghost
    [quote:4681094e7a="Ratoot"]I didn't say I didn't read your articles Newt.

    You will notice that this is my first dealings with you since said IN article.

    My beef with the article is not the bit that Tent highlights but rather this bit:



    [quote:4681094e7a]However the pursuit of so many people around the world for accessing paedophile images creates a strong impression that the desire to view such images is itself the crime. This leads quickly to the perception that internet records are being used to determine a suspect’s illicit sexuality. [/quote:4681094e7a]

    As agian, this assumes that paedophilia is a sexuality that eventually, as you pointed out about homosexuality, will become a "Lifestyle Choice".[/quote:4681094e7a]

    I'm assuming that you are using quotation marks for the words lifestyle choice because you are trying to mischievously paraphrase what newton has actually written.

    in turn, would this not indicate that you yourself view homosexuality to be a lifestyle choice? in which case I am sure Feline1 might have something to say to you.

    I'll hold the coats.
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  78. avatar RAAP Management
    The goalposts are trundling all around the pitch now, it really, really doesn't state that homosexuality 'comes anywhere near paedophilia'.
  79. avatar rentaghost
    [quote:454e1b69df="Ratoot"]Listen, it's hard enough to get some people on this board to accept Homosexuality as a an acceptable sexuality never mind trying to convince them that Paedophilia comes anywhere near.[/quote:454e1b69df]

    in no way does this article indicate ANYWHERE that having sex with children is acceptable.

    it merely poses the question that the root cause of people wanting to have sex with children might be due to sexuality. I dont think that there is any question that this 'sexuality' is a deviance which needs to be criminalised.
  80. avatar Ratoot
    I disagree that Paedophilia is a form of "Sexuality".

    Lets get that striaght first of all.

    I believe that there can be Sexual Attraction to children, but rather an attraction to donination and control and that this is centred on children because of the physical and mental inequality and vunerability that exists between and adult and a child.

    So making reference to homosexuality in this case is, in my opinion, grossly unfair.
  81. avatar rentaghost
    finally! a clear point. you are entitled to your opinion, but at least base it on a factual attack rather than implying newton has said things he hasnt
  82. avatar Portadown News Editor
    Another point missed. Homosexuality was only raised in the article, as the article makes clear, to cite the fact that 40 years ago psychiatrists (and courts) were treating it as an 'illness' that could be 'cured'. That turned out to be nonsense and I stated it to be nonsense.

    The question then raised is - what if psychiatrists and courts are making the same mistake today with paedophilia? What if it is innate sexual behaviour that can never be 'cured'? The presence on the streets this week of a dangerous 78-year old multiple offender, breaking his bail conditions for the second time in a year, surely indicates that this is not the sort of behaviour that can be reformed. The 20-year re-offending rate for the most dangerous category of sex offender is 70 per cent and it is believed that this could be as high as 90 per cent if monitoring went on for longer. I believe there is simply no doubt now that a re-evaluation of punishment and treatment methods is required and this in turn requires a fundamental re-evaluation of what paedophilia is - a re-evaluation undertaken to get to the truth, rather than to justify the beliefs and agendas of various failed professionals in this field.
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  83. avatar Ratoot
    The article doesn't state that it "Might" be due to sexuality, It states that Paedophilia IS a sexuality.

    Which I completely disagree with.
  84. avatar rentaghost
    *sigh* life was much simpler when we just used the little bstards for cleaning shoes and chimneys.
  85. avatar Portadown News Editor
    This is an opinion column. In my opinion, paedophilia is a sexuality - all talk of non-sexual 'power and domination' motivations is self-serving psychobabble for a professional/legal class that simply has no idea what to do about it but can make £80k a year each talking bollocks while the rest of us figure it out.

    You might hold another opinion. However, you could justify it better by not misrepresenting the points I have raised, and by not wilfully implying that I am homophobic and/or a paedophile sympathiser.
  86. avatar Ratoot
    [quote:0eb234928c]but at least base it on a factual attack rather than implying newton has said things he hasnt[/quote:0eb234928c]

    No, I haven't implied anything.

    (I use the term "Lifestyle Choice" for the want of better words, what i mean is "Socially acceptable" or rather "more socially acceptable")

    I am mearly disagreeing with newton on the point that The authorities may be making the same mistake they made with homosexuality 40 years ago, now with paedophilia.

    In my opinion he's comparing apples with oranges.

    I do agree with him when he says that they are making mistakes, no doubt, however, using homosexuality as an example wound be an mistake.







    I've reached my Max today so i'll answer rentagosts point below here:


    [quote:0eb234928c]Yet it seems obvious from the varied profile of paedophiles, and from the prevalence and similarity of their behaviour across different countries, that paedophilia is a sexuality. [/quote:0eb234928c]

    and then:

    [quote:0eb234928c]Namely, that paedophilia is a sexuality, that we are approaching the criminalisation of that sexuality, and that we have absolutely no idea what to do about it.[/quote:0eb234928c]


    To Zwaddap_deep_doo below:

    Your Ma!
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  87. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    I had an inkling that this fuss was a result of Ratoots dislike for the semantic spook 'sexuality'.

    Ratoot the level of willful obfuscation you've diplayed in this thread is unreal.
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  88. avatar rentaghost
    [quote:3d6617255a="Ratoot"]The article doesn't state that it "Might" be due to sexuality, It states that Paedophilia IS a sexuality.

    Which I completely disagree with.[/quote:3d6617255a]

    actually, it says 'it seems to be'.

    and how is this a comparison, exactly?

    [quote:3d6617255a]Forty years ago homosexuality was treated as a mental illness and respected psychiatrists experimented with medical ‘treatments’. We now realise this was nonsense and view sexual relationships between consenting adults as a private matter. [b:3d6617255a]Paedophilia can never be viewed this way [/b:3d6617255a]but that is a moral judgement, not a psychiatric diagnosis.
    [/quote:3d6617255a]
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  89. avatar thefatson
    It is a sexuality, perverted or not that is what it is.

    I blame the kind of porn that has increasingly young looking girls for encouraging this sexuality.

    Oh yeah, they prefer the term "Intergenerational Love", I was about to post a link to nambla(North American Man Boy Love Association) but their site is down.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambla

    Apparently Ginsberg was a member but we all know he liked pink arses.

    [img:dcde4c2ebd]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d6/Nambla-logo.png/300px-Nambla-logo.png[/img:dcde4c2ebd]
  90. avatar kingmob
    This reminds me of my all-time favourite joke.

    What causes paedophilia?

    Sexy kids.
  91. avatar Seamusmaguidhir
    [quote:66db0702e2="rentaghost"][quote:66db0702e2="Ratoot"]The article doesn't state that it "Might" be due to sexuality, It states that Paedophilia IS a sexuality.[/quote:66db0702e2]
    actually, it says 'it seems to be'.[/quote:66db0702e2]

    And the author states:

    [quote:66db0702e2="Portadown News Editor"]This is an opinion column. In my opinion, paedophilia is a sexuality[/quote:66db0702e2]
  92. avatar fastfude
    Why doesn't everyone just read the article first, so you an at least agree on what was said or not:

    http://www.irishnews.com/access/pdfedition/2004/10/28/A06M4.pdf
  93. avatar Portadown News Editor
    Here's the original as a graphic.
    Presumably an explanation from Anto for his early remarks is out of the question.

    [img:baa16f6d9e]http://www.portadownnews.com/eyeofnewt.jpg[/img:baa16f6d9e]


    The URL is www.portadownnews/eyeofnewt.jpg
  94. avatar The Ronster
    I've thought that paedophilia was a sexuality since as far back as I can remember - it seems to be a blatantly self evident point.

    Some people get their rocks off on kids.

    However - for the protection of the kids society has to take a hand in preventing people with this particular sexuality from crossing the line of abuse. Hence criminalisation, the only moral and sensible decision.

    Trying to claim that paedophiles want to have the urges they do is ludricrous - surely life would be a tad easier for them if they simply found people of their own age attractive? So in that regard I don't think it can be called a lifestyle choice.

    I believe also that the same logic can be applied to people who feel compelled to rape: it is an aberrant form of sexuality (heavily tied in with violent tendancies) that needs to be legislated against, and is.

    This reminds me of one of my current notions (entirely unrelated to this topic, but I don't think worth another thread): does anyone else think that the high numbers of young working class male suicides could be related to the extreme prejudice against homosexuality in the areas they lived in?

    Is that an entirely unlikely premise?
  95. avatar Daithi jasper
    Yep, its an opinion column and it seems obvious that some people disagree with the opinion. Seems simple enough to me.
  96. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    Yes, lets forget the rather tenuous grasp on reality that Anto and Ratoot have displayed in this thread.
  97. avatar Seamy ALB
    [quote:7f81f12602="The Ronster"]
    This reminds me of one of my current notions (entirely unrelated to this topic, but I don't think worth another thread): does anyone else think that the high numbers of young working class male suicides could be related to the extreme prejudice against homosexuality in the areas they lived in?

    Is that an entirely unlikely premise?[/quote:7f81f12602]

    I do not think that the growing decay of mental health and resulting rise in sucide in Ireland can really be related to to extreme prejudice againist homosexuality. If it where sucide rates would be on the decrease as Ireland 10, 20, 30 years ago was much more repressed/prejudiced towards all forms of sexuality.

    I think it has more to do with pace and pressure we live life at now.
  98. avatar That Man Fanjo
    Considerable amounts of bollocks talked about a remarkably straightforward issue.

    Children are children because they cannot make informed decisions or choices.

    Therefore the "lifestyle choice" and/or "vile perversion" of the "inter-generational lover" and/or "paedo scum" is simply wrong.

    End of.

    Don't give a rat's ass what the left, the right or the middle have to say about it.
  99. avatar Danny McCormack
    [quote:7a8f435878="That Man Fanjo"]Considerable amounts of bollocks talked about a remarkably straightforward issue.[/quote:7a8f435878]

    +1. I can't believe this thread has went to 7 pages. Moderators?
  100. avatar Box Marked Commie
    And here is the letter I wrote to the Editor following the initial publication.

    That is all.

    [quote:f77c9b8bdb]Dear Neill,

    I read with surprise the comments of Newton Emerson with regard to the perception of paedophilia in our society and the media in general in Thursday's "Eye of Newt". I am happy to agree that the media and certain elements in the child care establishment are generating a culture of fear and mistrust within families and communities in an effort to be seen to act against a genuine and awful, if thankfully uncommon, threat to our children.

    Newton's articles sometimes amuse and entertain and even more often provoke and baffle me, but that is his obvious role in the paper and I accept that. I cannot accept, however, his assertion that paedophilia is a "sexuality" and that should have some sort of parity with homosexuality. Newton went on to draw a comparison between attitudes to homosexuality in the law in recent history and current attitudes to paedophilia. Surely no matter how provocative or challenging his column is meant to be, this assertion could not possibly be considered valid.

    I doubt that Newton has researched psychological or behavioural evidence in coming to his spurious conclusion. Paedophilia, certainly to those who act on it, is quite clearly a compulsive behavioural disorder and not a sexuality. Men may be attracted to women or men and vice versa, but anyone who finds it necessary to use coercion, violence, threats, drugs and psychological torment to satisfy their sexual needs must be aware that they have crossed a line. Paedophilia is a crime perpetrated by people who put their own selfish desires over the health and wellbeing of children, and must always be considered so.

    As to dealing with those who are brave enough to express a sexual interest in children but would not act upon this, then I'm sure there is hope. It is right that these people should not be immediately criminalised but helped to overcome their compulsion in the same way as alcoholics, gambling addicts, junkies. Understanding, knowledge and compassion has always been a better way of dealing with any form of problem from crime and drugs to terrorism and mental illness than an approach of blind eradication.

    Frankly I am amazed that such an article passed your desk without being amended, as I cannot imagine what useful contribution to any sensible debate on the issue was served by it.

    Regards

    (Anthony O'Kane)[/quote:f77c9b8bdb]
  101. avatar Box Marked Commie
    Oh and Newton, sorry I obviously misremembered that phrase as being included in the original article. I think it was actually used during THE SAME DEBATE WE ARE HAVING NOW on basic about 2 years ago.

    Fact is you are horribly underqualified to comment meaningfully on such a sensitive matter, and your arrogant dismissal of the entire body of psychological study over the last 70 years, with a single sentence, speaks volumes.

    You are employed as an opinion hack, and your job is to wind people up. In this of course you are normally very competent. In this case your choice of topic was inappropriate.
  102. avatar T Entertainment
    Anto...firstly you blatantly invented that hideous non-existent quote then you accused me of taking it out of the article before posting it! That's as clear as day 'and sums it up'.
  103. avatar Chi-Lite
    And anyway Anto, your wee letter doesn't really argue about the point at hand.

    [quote:b16ba239d3="Box Marked Commie"]I cannot accept, however, his assertion that paedophilia is a "sexuality" and that should have some sort of parity with homosexuality. Newton went on to draw a comparison between attitudes to homosexuality in the law in recent history and current attitudes to paedophilia. Surely no matter how provocative or challenging his column is meant to be, this assertion could not possibly be considered valid.[/quote:b16ba239d3]

    The fella's a w[b:b16ba239d3][/b:b16ba239d3]anker, but surely a comparison can be made. Two different sexual practices which, at different periods of history, have both been seen as totally immoral and illegal. Making the comparison isn't the same as saying that the progress made on homosexuality SHOULD be extended to peadophilia. It just makes the point that the moral views on paedophilia were at one time also applied to homosexuality. That doesn't suggest that, because it's no longer applied to homosexuality, it should no longer be applied to paedophilia. I don't think making a comparison between the two neccessarily implies that the same changes in attitude should be made.

    [quote:b16ba239d3]Paedophilia, certainly to those who act on it, is quite clearly a compulsive behavioural disorder and not a sexuality.[/quote:b16ba239d3]

    Surely it's about people compulsively acting upon their very very wrong sexual desires. Does this mean it's not a sexuality???? It certainly involves sexual desire. You people seem to think that naming something a sexuality somehow means that it must be socially acceptable, whereas I'm constantly arguing that some forms of sexuality, i.e. acting upon certain types of sexual desire, can be and often is wrong. Paedophilia is one of these cases.

    [quote:b16ba239d3]Men may be attracted to women or men and vice versa, but anyone who finds it necessary to use coercion, violence, threats, drugs and psychological torment to satisfy their sexual needs must be aware that they have crossed a line.[/quote:b16ba239d3]


    Obviously true, but has absolutely no bearing on sexuality. The question is not about the means people use to satisfy their sexual desires, but about whether some sexual desires are wrong in themselves. I think they are.


    [quote:b16ba239d3]Paedophilia is a crime perpetrated by people who put their own selfish desires over the health and wellbeing of children, and must always be considered so.[/quote:b16ba239d3]

    Again, obviously true. But it's about people fulfilling their sexual desires in this selfish way, thereforer reinforcing the case that it's a sexuality.



    Anto, I'm not backing up rat boy here, but your letter does seem more aggrieved at the cheek of him to broach such a serious subject in his half-assed, pseudo-satirical column...which I think is fair enough.

    But I don't think you adress the issue, and I think it boils down to your humanist, naturalist view, as opposed to my Theist, supernaturalist view.

    You seem to be arguing that paedophilia is not a sexuality, but that it is purely and solely a vindictive choice by people who consciously decide to ARBITRARILY physically abuse children. Obviously IT IS an immoral choice to do such a thing, but it obviously STEMS from a form of sexuality. Your argument that it cannot be thought to be a sexuality I think stems from your unwillingness to accept that there can be sexuality which may be quite natural, and which people may indeed be born with an orientation towards, but which are nonetheless morally worng.

    I on the other hand, think it is a sexuality, it fairly obviously being a manifestation of very particular sexual desires.

    The fact that such sexual desires are so obviously and completely morally abhorrent is something I think we can all agree on. But to talk about compulsive behaviour and criminal action in no way obscures the fact that such behaviour stems from a very real aspect of some people's personal sexuality.


    I'm afraid to mention it in the same sentence for fear of the inevitable backlash, but there are comparisons to be made with homosexuality.

    I DONT think that there is any moral comparison between two consenting same sex adults so-called "cross generational" sex. They are absolutely different in moral terms.

    But in general terms of the social status of sexualities, and of the dichotomy between natural sexual desires and moral choices about sexual practices.

    Some people may have sexual desires for people of the same sex. Some people may have sexual desires for people of pensionable age. Some people may have sexual desires for children........There are some people who would stick their dick into anything with a hole in it. these are all sexual desires, and as such, sexualities.....

    My point, and it has been all along concerning any matter of sexuality, is that sexuality isn't some kind of natural hormonal trap into which people fall and are then forced to act upon it. Sexual desires are just that desires. The morality surrounding them is a separate issue.

    If I'm hungry I may have a quite natural desire to break into some old womans house and raid her cupboards. Whether or not I do this depends on the moral choice.

    If people have sexual desires for children, animals, or someone of their own sex, this may well be some kind of natural subconscious thing. People acting on their sexual impulses is in all cases a moral choice.

    We do not act on every impulse or desire that crosses our psyche. I'll admit that on certain occassions I have had a strong DESIRE to quite literally murder someone, to literally kill them.

    But I never would.
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  104. avatar Portadown News Editor
    Anto, I don't believe that you are any more qualified than I am to determine whether or not paedophilia constitutes a sexuality, although I recall that you signed your letter to the Irish News as "Research Scientist", which was adorable.

    Not so adorable, however, was your attempt to portray my views here as sympathetic towards paedophilia. Twice you accused me of claiming that it would one day be socially acceptable and you are still equivocating over this despite your claims having been disproved.

    I do not understand how you can simultaneously criticise me for being a conventional hack and espousing unorthodox views, or also how you can accuse me of taking a superficial and sensationalist approach to this issue while yourself attempting to misinterpret and sensationalise what I have written.
  105. avatar pauldoherty
    not only a hack but a wee runt into the bargain :-D
  106. avatar Pete
    Feel free to criticise Newtown for his writing, feel free to disagree with his opinions. But leave all the name calling crap out of it.
  107. avatar Box Marked Commie
    [quote:367b5a6f18]lthough I recall that you signed your letter to the Irish News as "Research Scientist", which was adorable.
    [/quote:367b5a6f18]

    t'is what it says on my paycheque Newt, has done for 4 years.

    My main criticism of the piece wasn't that it was sympathetic to paedophilia, which is clear from my letter, in fact I's probably go further than you in that I believe that the demonisation of people with these urges is counter-productive and that once they have crossed the line of even feeling like this that they believe there is no way back.
    No the criticism I expressed is that when you equate paedophilia to a "sexuality" then you are equating it with homosexuality.

    Sexual attraction is a million miles away from using drugs, coercion and violence to consumate it. The sexuality of the person using violence against a child for sexual gratification is utterly irrelevant. The deviancy is not in the attraction but the nature of the act. Those who act in a way to abuse children have an issue that goes far deeper than simple attraction.
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  108. avatar The Fires of Hell
    [quote:1f721086ef]not only a hack but a wee runt into the bargain [/quote:1f721086ef]

    If you want to remain able to use this site keep vile little digs like this to yourself.
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  109. avatar Box Marked Commie
    [img:bb1f2bf570]http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Brian-standup.jpg[/img:bb1f2bf570]
    "Runt, I said, RUNT!"

    Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood.:)
  110. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:cb53b85cf3="Box Marked Commie"]
    No the criticism I expressed is that when you equate paedophilia to a "sexuality" then you are equating it with homosexuality.[/quote:cb53b85cf3]

    How? Surely it equates it, in terms of sexuality, with all other sexualities, including those that buck dogs and cats. You just don't want to use the word "sexuality" because you think that all sexualities are completely natural impulses and therefore cannot be morally wrong.....which is balls

    [quote:cb53b85cf3]The sexuality of the person using violence against a child for sexual gratification is utterly irrelevant. The deviancy is not in the attraction but the nature of the act.[/quote:cb53b85cf3]

    I think that's absolute ballix.

    [quote:cb53b85cf3]Those who act in a way to abuse children have an issue that goes far deeper than simple attraction.[/quote:cb53b85cf3]

    True, but to completely ignore the sexual issue as irrelevant is a very stupid thing to do, as it's obviously the motivating factor.

    That's why Rape isn't just defined as a violent crime, but also as a sex crime. Should we say that in cases of rape, the sexual aspect is unimportant and it should just be treated as any other violent crime?

    No.
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  111. avatar The Fires of Hell
    Sorry Anto but lightening the mood is not the required response to the type of pernicious crap above.
  112. avatar pauldoherty
    well i'll put it this way,i think the article is a joke and the person who wrote it is an even bigger joke.Is that o.k?
  113. avatar Box Marked Commie
    Nah Marty.

    Serial Killers and psycotics often obtain sexual gratification from their crimes, but this is not the motivating factor in their behaviour. Paedophilia is similar as I see it.
  114. avatar The Fires of Hell
    That's fine Paul. Kindly cut the snide personals.
  115. avatar Portadown News Editor
    [quote:632d69a246]when you equate paedophilia to a "sexuality" then you are equating it with homosexuality.[/quote:632d69a246]

    This statement is ignorant. As Chi-lite points out, there are countless forms of sexuality. Indeed I believe that Billy Bragg has written a song about this very subject, which can only underline its importance.

    You need to make your mind up Anto. Do you want to call me homophobic or do you want to call me a pervert? Then you can maybe work on a more consistent misrepresentation of my views.
  116. avatar Box Marked Commie
    Ach Newton I only wish to make clear my disdain for you broaching a subject like this in order to fill that weeks brief for some meaty opinion, when you are clearly unequipped to add anything of substance to the debate.
    You addressed no research, no studies nothing except your own ignorant opinion in a purely self-serving and cynical attempt to be "contraversial". I wouldn't claim that equating paedophilia with sexuality means you are a homophobe, rather i take it as evidence that you are arrogant and irresponsible, and place "shock" value well above any notion of journalistic or personal integrity.
  117. avatar Portadown News Editor
    This must be the first instance in recorded history where discusing a policy used as an alternative to imprisonment in Denmark counts as shocking tabloid irresponsibility.

    The subject of the nature of paedophilia should hardly be out of bounds for anyone, whether or not they have a job on a newspaper, although your defence of a professional class monopoly on the debate is duly noted. One of the reasons discussion on paedophilia has moved on so little is that anyone asking difficult questions about the issue is prone to sneaky implications of paedo-sympathy from the likes of the Daily Mail. I leave it for others to judge who has acted more in that vein here.
  118. avatar Crackity_jones
    Exactly who is the reactionary one here? Sheesh.
  119. avatar feline1
    This whole thread is quite brainwrong.

    And seems largely conducted by Sock Puppets.


    Anyways, it is demonstrable that post-pubescent teens can desire sexual relations, either with their peers or with adults.
    Various "ages of consent" are defined in various countries, where society deems these teens can be trusted to decide whom to have sex with in a way which does not "emotionally damage" them (the rationale being that society does not want lots of "emotionally damaged" people in it).

    This age of consent currently ranges from, what, 14 in some places? and recently was 21 in NornIrond for fruitners.

    Clearly, the law has to try and 'responsibly generalise'. But it's all a bit ahine, as some 38 year old office worker called Geraldine can probably find herself so traumatised by their Bad Shag she had with Steven from Accounts at the office party that she's started having Panic Attacks,
    whilst at the other end of the spectrum, 15 year old Brendan from Aughnacloy is so frustrated and repressed about his gayness and the crush he has on 27 year old PE teacher Mr Slicker, that he has taken to glue sniffing, dropped out of his GCSEs, and managed to end up in A&E after that unfortunate and embarrassing incident with the milk bottle.

    Clearly, *non*-consensual acts are always Bad.

    But anyways, these changes in ages of consent in various countries today do demonstrably show that cultures do change their attitudes to these practises.
  120. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    Go Feline. Just read that listening Andrew Bird's Armchair Apocrypha album and it was quite affecting.
  121. avatar ryanego
    For once I entirely agree with chi lite.
    Except for the bit about hating Newton Emerson, as I don't know him at all and enjoyed the article :)
  122. avatar Portadown News Editor
    Chi-Lite doesn't know me either. I've never met him, Anto, Ray, Marty or Paul. It's probably just [i:6aef27a7ef]the idea of me [/i:6aef27a7ef]that annoys them.

    (See below for demonstration.)
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  123. avatar tinpot anto
    Yup way to look beyond the stereotype there Mr Emerson.

    I mean is *everyone* who dislikes you, and your opinions a republican/westie/taig/chip-shouldered working class oik, or do you have other categories to rationalise the remainder?

    Your consistent argument seems to be that the only reason anyone could possibly disagree with you is that they suffer from a serious personality flaw, usually brought on from proximity to priests and diddly-dee music and the like, but of course you hold no prejudice in that respect, how could you I mean you hold working class protestants in the same contempt. :)
  124. avatar Zwaddap_deep_doo
    Anto are you going to make a habit of putting words in other peoples mouths?

    It is getting more and more obvious that this is a personal issue much bigger than the articles discussed in this thread and might be better taken to PM.
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  125. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    I find this very ironic and a touch sad, that Big Ray who started all this ballix, is a member of a so called politically motivated band, and budding hack.

    There seems to be a serious grasp of not getting facts straights and being unable to break down and digest a piece in the Irish News. In fact he got his knickers in a twist like a Sun reader, potenitally left himself and this website open for liable proceedings of Newton. Your arguements for shouting at rooftops at Newton aren't very good or at all thought out. A bit crap really. Does whatever message your trying to get across in your music no favours at all. Maybe that is the message, I dunno.

    Anto on the other hand displays nothing more than being very jealous of Newton, and has done for years. That just my opinion by the way.

    It's like an online installment of Stalin Great Purges. :lol:
  126. avatar Daithi jasper
    Ah jealous. Like everyone here is of snow patrol. End this monstrosity.
  127. avatar Chi-Lite
    [quote:8d51c508d8="ryanego"]For once I entirely agree with chi lite.
    Except for the bit about hating Newton Emerson, as I don't know him at all and enjoyed the article :)[/quote:8d51c508d8]

    Sooner or later, You'll all agree with me. :-D

    I don't hate anybody, particularly people I've never met personally. I have a very very low opinion of Newton Emerson, informed by exposure to some of his writings, internet posting and tv appearances.

    I don't know if that's what you mean by the [i:8d51c508d8]idea[/i:8d51c508d8] of you. That's certainly the idea of yourself that you try to present to the world, I think it's a reasonable enough thing to judge you on.

    Which is why I think this whole thread is silly. It's fairly obviously more concerned with berating Newton Emerson for having the cheek to talk about such subjects, since we all have echoes of his usual snidey sardonic commentary on other issues ringing in our heads. In fact, in my first post I said something about the idea of him writing about this subject again. As Anto admitted a cupla posts back, his problem is with snidey Newton Emerson taking on such a serious topic for the sake of controversy

    He's generally known as a controversialist.
    Many of his articles are, as I've said above snidey and sneery. I'm not sure if this one was, but the idea of a person normally known for writing such pithy articles deciding to take on such a serious subject gets peoples heads up. I suspect that's what started this whole thing, but I also suspect if it had been another journalists article, we could have discussed the issue in a more adult manner.

    I'm not particularly interested in discussing this unsavoury issue, to be honest. But I have to disagree with most of the things that Anto said, which do seem really obviously to be a dig at Newt.

    Do like me, have a dig at him and leave it at that. I think all your arguments about homosexuality, sexuality, and compulsive behaviours have been wrongheaded and hasty.
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  128. avatar T Entertainment
    "I don't hate anybody, particularly people I've never met personally"

    The attacks made on his nibs do come across as really quite spiteful and vitriolic sometimes though ('runt', 'monkey boy' 'specky fruit' etc). So it's not hard for people to form that impression.
    Add to that the deliberate attempts to imply he is some sort of paedo sympathiser (which is indeed a manifestation of the worse sort of tabloid mud slinging) simply for writing two op-ed pieces on the subject in 3 years and it looks pretty f*cking unpleasant (I know you haven't engaged in the latter, Marty. But it's undeniably happened).
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  129. avatar Chi-Lite
    Manifestations of, as I say, the low esteem in which I hold him, based on many of the things that he's written and said.

    Which I think is fair enough.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call it hate. I often insult many people, even those that I like. I wouldn't take an insult from me to be an expression of out and out vitriolic HATRED. I dislike him, have no respect for him, and hold a very low opinion of him, based on those things which I know about him.

    He may well be a very nice man to his wife. :-D
  130. avatar rentaghost
    Finally I am able to post again!

    I would just like to point out that while I will eagerly take part in an online debate in a public thread, regardless of the issue, I will not be co-erced, cajoled or bullied into getting into a debate by private message.

    PARTICULARLY when the things I have taken issue with in the debate have been the result of someone being misquoted, misrepresented, and potentially libelled.

    If I have a comment to make I will make it where everyone else can see, so they can make of it what they will and I will NOT leave myself open to the same actively wilful spiteful and dangerous methods some people have been trying (badly) to use to blacken characters on this thread.

    I am deeply wary about the potential for me to say something as part of a pm which might then be taken out of context later on.

    IS THAT QUITE CLEAR RAY?
  131. avatar Rezo
    [img:ade2c5868d]http://www.sonofnostalgiazone.com/prodimages/ClassStruggleGame.jpg[/img:ade2c5868d]
    [i:ade2c5868d]Newt and Anto yesterday...[/i:ade2c5868d]
  132. avatar feline1
    why on earth would anyone hate Newton Emerson - his PortadownNews website has provided me with more 'Laugh? I near shat!' spit-your-tea-over-the-monitor-screen moments that any other site this side of http://www.tvgohome.com
    It would be like hating Basil Fawlty.

    Dare I suggest that if some do find its satire upsetting, it is because they are staying at a certain hotel in Torquay themselves???????
  133. avatar Chi-Lite
    I personally have always found his stuff to be conceited, condescending, derisory and snidey.

    Not to mention that he's not averse to making very nasty personal comments when it suits him.

    I'm quite fond of making personal comments too, but I don't pretend to be utilising my journalistic integrity in doing it

    Different strokes for different folks, Sly Stone taught us that a long time ago.
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  134. avatar Ratoot
    It appears I can post again...

    Rentaghost, I sent the same PM to all the main parties and it simply cleared up my position.

    It was an attempt to take the arguement away from a local music forum, where it clearly doesn't belong.

    Is there a problem?

    Also you are quite welcome to Cut&paste the message here.

    In it i opologise to Newton for any insult and explain why, in a dignified mannor, I disagree with his stand piont. I apologise if this was taken the wrong way. I wasn't on the attack, i promise!
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  135. avatar kingmob
    Has anyone pointed out yet that the editor of the Irish News' name is Noel and not Neill?
  136. avatar dirty stevie smitty
    Rite, there's everything sorted. Anto mis-remembered and Big Ray got the wrong end of the stick. Newton can rest easy this evening with a fine glass of red in his middle class chalet overlooking Helen's Bay.

    Indeed the lord is weeping somewhere, whilst on his bike.

    Lock this thread before peace and harmony break out. :lol:
  137. avatar feline1
    Well I'm still waiting for the participants of this thread to tell us whether or not they had underage sex when they were under 18. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
  138. avatar Ratoot
    [quote:535339790b]Big Ray got the wrong end of the stick[/quote:535339790b]


    Erm... no i didn't.

    I still hold the same end. My end.

    It's just that I fear I may have been a bit too "sensationalist" to begin with, and felt my point was getting lost amoung the mudslinging.

    So I decided to sort it behind the scenes and explain to those involved not least Newt himself the craic with what I meant.

    Simple as that.
  139. avatar Portadown News Editor
    In a fitting indication of my middle class arrogance, I am leaving this evening for a skiing holiday in Austria.

    But I'll be thinking of you all enjoying your Special Brew in the park while I'm on the slopes.
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  140. avatar T Entertainment
    It must be nice to get out of the squalor of North Belfast in general and the stablands of the Antrim Road in particular once in a while. Do enjoy the respite.
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  141. avatar thefatson
    Cus we're all cliched head banging kiddie fiddling morons
  142. avatar feline1
    Well I take this refusal to comment as a clear indication that most of the messers on this thread were gleefully sexing away at the age of 15 or lower.

    Hyprocrites!
  143. avatar That Man Fanjo
    None of your goddamn business... ya freakin' preevert.
  144. avatar churchwarden
    Since everyone else appears to have stuck their oar in...

    1. Surely the main point of the article was that paedophilia is not being dealt with by the current methods being used by the authorities - nothing wrong with Newt pointing that out. Convicted paedophiles are leaving prsion and are still a threat - the issue is how does society minimise that threat

    2. Newt can be completely non PC - this is a good thing, as opposed to the normal parochial, middle of the road twaddle that fills a lot of our local media. Perhaps someone could post the "fat people on the boat to scotland" article which is up there with his better diatribes against the world in general.

    3. In the real world, Newt is a decent bloke ( I shall now go and rob his house while he is off on holidays )
  145. avatar Portadown News Editor
    Don't even think about it. Due to my appalling sexism, I am leaving the other half here and going skiing with my brother.

    PS: That article about the HSS got more letters in than anything else I've ever written, all clearly penned by Stena's PR department. Unless real people actually write things like "I am appalled by this denigation of Stena's excellent service, competitive prices and convenient timetable" etc. etc.
  146. avatar kingmob
    If only we had the sheer jawdropping insanity of 4Chan's PedoBear this time last year. He would have sorted this mess out in record time.

    [img:19de5adf00]http://awooga.org/a/35533ino.gif[/img:19de5adf00]
  147. avatar Mickeycolensoparade
    Is this thread worth reading?
  148. avatar die the flu
    Probably not.

    I would point out though that almost without fail, the people who express the least faith in the criminal justice system also tend to be the same people who vocally express a desire to see people convicted on foot of said system physically mutilated or even killed.

    Which is of course, completely f*cking stupid.
  149. avatar Mickeycolensoparade
    So I read it... In maths terms it was as they say 'Minus craic'
  150. avatar feline1
    dredging up old threads is no resurrecting EZboard...
  151. avatar George W Best
    an anyone give me a scientifically sound reason why everyone should not be killed?
  152. avatar whosbainejakey
    [quote:01c38dd232="George W Best"]an anyone give me a scientifically sound reason why everyone should not be killed?[/quote:01c38dd232]

    [img:01c38dd232]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/firthie/Judge_dredd.jpg[/img:01c38dd232]

    [i:01c38dd232]"Judge Dredd ponders this conundrum, yesterday..."[/i:01c38dd232]

    Rog, can we please turn the above image into an emoticon that can be easily deployed during any discussion of "The Law"?
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  153. avatar fastfude
    [quote:2b75d3365c="George W Best"]an anyone give me a scientifically sound reason why everyone should not be killed?[/quote:2b75d3365c]IP checker or no, you surely share DNA with T Entertainment?
  154. avatar T Entertainment
    I merely pointed out that I am not he, obviously I stand foresquare behind that statement.