I want to get a decent flanger but haven't a clue about them.
Anyone know a good make and price?
I have it on good authority that the boss flanger is good. And purple. The electric mistress is the queen of flangers, but everybody knows that phasers are better.
Yes, phasing is "better", since it less linear and thus more valid, as
explained on [url]http://members.tripod.co.uk/felinedream/html/boards.htm[/url]
But there are still plenty of musical circumstances where a good old
flange is werth it.
The best way is to feed ewer signal through a pair of reel-to-reel
tape recorders, in parallel, recording the signal to tape and playing
it back off in real time -
then simply press on the "flange" of one of the reels,
and witness the audio magic of "thru-zero" tape flange.
This phase response is incomparably better.
My favourite example on record is probably the coda of
IN EVERY DREAM HOME A HEARTACHE on Roxy Music's "FOR EWER PLEASURE" LP
Boss and electro harmonix both make excellent flangerz.
I have a "mini rackmount" Boss "RBF-10" stereo bucket-brigade flanger,
and a Boss BF-2B bucket-brigade "Bass Flanger".
They are both perfectly serviceable.
Feline2 has that Zoom RFX-1000 rack thing, which has a
stereo digital flanger on it ... tis "OK".
But the best flanging is done with tapes, I tell ewe!
well im partial to a bit of flange now and again.
I remember there was an "analogue modelling" tape plug VST plug-in reviewed
in Sound on Sound a while ago ....
...y'all really should try and hear it (I appreciate there probably aren't
any revoxes left in the whole of NornIrond, so ewe'll not get to hear
"real" tape flanging that way) ....
....it really is a very special sound, much better than flanging done with
just bucket-brigade or digital delays.
"Save the Life of My Child" on Giman & Sourfunkles "BOOKENDS" lp
is one of the first ever tape flanges on record.
It's so much fun actually pressing the flange with ewer finger
as the tape whirrrrrrrrs
Yes, so there you are.
To sum up, it's not flanging you want, it's phasing, apparently.
And if you want to get a flanger don't.
Get that authentic sound by buying a Revox instead, record your parts onto it, carry it to your gig, and press on the tape path flange at the appropriate part.
The audience'll be stunned by the recreation of authentic flanging and you'll sleep better with a clear conscience.
Who says Fastfude isn't helpful?
Just ignore all of the above waffle, try to find a second hand Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress, or go to
[url]http://www.buzzfox.com/el-dxmistress.html[/url] and order one.
On that page you'll find an amusing demo with a cyber guitar you can strum and controls you can alter to hear what it sounds like.
Yes but Eno used to do live tape flanging with Roxy Music in 1971.
Them war the days....
Seriously though, tape-flanging does sound markedly different to
the attempt to recreate it with delay lines (be they analogue or digital),
cos the frequency & phase response of a pair of revoxes is quite
different to delay lines... and also the time delay goes thru zero.
Anyway, ewe can get a VST tape flanging plug-in, which sounds
more like tape flanging than a flanger pedal does.
Aha. Replace the Revox taping with a high end PC with a good soundcard, get the plugin, set your latency right and you'll be flying. Sorted. Might be fiddly turning it on and off during the solo though.
Sorry, when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was about something else ...
Here's an article from Sound On Sound:
Tape Phasing & Flanging
Tape phasing, commonly known as tape flanging, is a unique effect, and though some digital flangers have managed to approximate it, I've yet to hear a truly convincing emulation. If you've never experimented with tape flanging, the effect is created by running two identical copies of the same recording on open-reel analogue recorders (usually in mono) and then summing the two outputs together via a mixer at exactly the same levels. The two recordings are started together -- a hit-and-miss business at the best of times -- then the speed of one of the machines is slowed slightly by using hand pressure on the tape reel. The idea is not to get so far behind that you can hear a tangible ADT-style delay, but simply to produce a comb filtering effect. Comb filtering occurs by virtue of the addition and subtraction of frequencies that end up being in-phase or out-of-phase as determined by the delay time. Whichever machine is leading is then slowed down so that the delay decreases until the point where the other machine takes the lead. As the relative delay between the two tapes changes and finally passes through zero, the familiar whooshing effect is created as the comb filter sweeps through different frequencies in the source material. And so it continues with the leading machine being slowed manually so that the two recordings drift in and out of phase with each other. Because tape flanging is literally hands on, the effect is different every time. Some of the more sophisticated studios used electronic speed control instead of hand braking to create the effect.
Modern flangers seek to emulate this effect by digitally delaying one signal relative to another (by just a few milliseconds), then modulating the delay time using a low-frequency oscillator, or LFO. To make the effect stronger, some of the output is fed back to the input, which adds resonance to the comb-filtering effect. Note that with tape flanging, no feedback is used. Artificial flanging of this kind sounds different to tape flanging for a number of reasons -- the LFO-controlled modulation is regular, feedback is used to add depth to the effect and the delay between the two signals never passes through zero, as it does when two tape machines are used.
A refinement of this method is to delay one signal by a very small amount (say 5mS), then modulate the delay of the other signal path so that it slowly changes from less than 5mS to more than 5mS. This provides the 'through zero' element of the effect but does nothing to break the regularity of the modulation unless the delay time is adjusted by hand. Furthermore, if feedback is applied, it doesn't create the desired effect, as the feedback-induced resonance will be a function of the whole DDL delay time, whereas the comb-filtering effect itself is related to the difference between the two delay times. A simple setup for through-zero flanging is shown in Figure 1 alongside the original tape-based arrangement.
In theory, it should be possible to emulate tape flanging much more closely by using techniques such as physical modelling. For example, one reason the effect sounds the way it does with analogue tape machines is that analogue machines don't have the precise phase response of a digital system. For example, put a 1kHz square wave into a digital recorder or effects processor and what comes out will be recognisable as a square wave. Not so with analogue tape -- the necessary frequencies are all there, but because of phase shifts in the electronic and magnetic components of the system, their time relationship is disturbed, which is why the waveform looks very different to the original. The simulations might be significantly closer if we were able to emulate this smearing before delaying the signals, as well as introducing more randomisation into the modulation.
Did anybody read that? Hands up!
Well you see Eamonn,
most folk on this website are too young to have
ever seen a real reel-to-reel tape machine ;-)
i will admit i did find it informative and interesting.
dammit. whats wrong with me?
I've been trying to get that luvvly seventies flange sound for ages. You know, like the one off Killer Queen and Blockbuster and all. Now I know why I haven't been able to. Pah!
Well quite! :-)
Does anyone know the name of that VST plugin?
Or must I spend all night scouring through the last 6 month's Sound oN Sounds?
Our brizo has a reel to reel in his mad professor's laboratory upstairs:
he's also got an electric mistress thingy box doofer sitting on our fridge.
Yeah but ewe need TWO reel-to-reels in parallel to
do tape flanging.
(Apparently when Simon & Garfunkle did "Save the Life
of My Child", their producer (is he Roy Halleeeee? I forget)
drove the studio mad by getting about 6 tape machines and
having them all stacked all over the place and everyone
was crying "why the hell does he need so many tape machines?!?!"
(cos obviously no-one else could record in the studios cos
S&G had pinched all the revoxes) and well it was all
kinda ahine - but at least they got it flanged in the end,
not to mention the first moaguebass in recorded history
I have a Boss flanger that works but is a bit duffed up if you want it. It's a high-end flanger and produces some wonderfully mad wee effects.. I'll even let you have it for free...
Mail me at email@example.com
Yes, I've even use them reel things live a la OMD. And let's stop the OMD reference right there.
BUT the guy is asking for what he "thinks" is flanging...which has a very characteristic sound, as opposed to the classic flanging, phasing..or as its original name was...."skying" prevalent in every farts end from S and G to Nirvana's "Rainbow Chaser", to Lizzy's "The Rocker"....none of which can be reproduced live.
We may be talking pedals here, especially as Mr John is a rawk geetarist.
Edited by: Eamonn P Keyes at: 6/26/01 8:47:43 pm
Yes, but even Rawk Geetarists can learn about
The True and Sacred Art of Thru Zero Flanging
He wasn't interested in art. He wanted make and price.
A subtle difference.
You know, like when you're drunk the man in a chippy van saying..."No...you can't eat that burger until you can tell me the anatomical details of your digestive system and the metabolic pathways involved in digestion".
You don't really give a @#%$. You want eat big greasy burger. Now. Same with big greasy flange pedal.
F1 why are yr posts always less wide than everyone elses? Is it yr crazy monitor? I have a reel to reel machine.
No, it is just my
When you get your flanger remember this important fact.
A Flange pedal has 4 knobs and none of these is volume or tone - only a very small number of combinations of these will generate anything resembling the "flange" sound you are looking for - the rest are warbly, robotic sounding arfunctulations which just sound crap.
Bearing this in mind retain the wee leaflet you get with the pedal for all time -
I lost mine and I haven't been able to get a decent noise out of the fuckin thing for 3 years.
the word "arfunculations" is a registered trademark of anto.
as is the word "istocraticism" and "funyrd" and also "blerntern"
Dismegumony descibes the state of being out of alignment with ones own opinions.
"Rate" is how fast the comb-filter "sweeps"
"Depth" is how "wide" the comb is along the frequency axis (from bass to treble)
(ie, at 'min', it only has a few wee teeth, in a small portion of the frequency spectrum; at 'max', it has loads of teeth, extending right the way across
the entire audio range)
"Resonance" is how tall the teeth of the comb are.
If you turn it up full, your flange may "self-oscillate" (ie, make a note
of its own, or "ring" - just the way a normal "Low-pass" filter on
an analogue synf does when you turn the resonance up full on it)
"Manual" is where the middle of the comb is before sweeping (ie, it
is the equivalent of the cut-off frequency on a normal low-pass
filter on an analogue synf)
If your "Depth" is up full, the teeth of the comb are right the way across the
range any, so "manual" makes no difference.
However, if "Depth" is just left small, there's only a few teeth,
so you can ewse "manual" to position them where ewe want.
Yeah but what about "regeneration" and "delay phasing"?
That was was most disincoprelent answer
I dunno - "regeneration" is most likely "resonance" (or "Q" as it's sometimes known).
I have no clue which one "delay phasing is"..... perhaps it is umsteigen?
This sounds like a
delay pedal with flange tendencies.
Regeneration is probably "Feedback", and "Delay Phasing" is probably application of the effect on the original,delayed signal. Probably.
This is very nice but There are still around 40000 possible combinations of only about 12 can be called useful.
It's a DOD Stereo Flanger
Well perhaps you should make more interesting music and
then ewe will find it more "flangeworthy" than ewer present
The manual for thon pedal can be found below and includes a few sample settings "and everything!":
[url="http://ftp://ftp.dod.com/DODpdf/Manuals/FX%20Pedals/FX75C-01.pdf"]DOD FX75c Stereo Flanger Manual[/url] (357kb)
Also, here's the full list of product manuals:
this has been a pubic service announcement :D
EZcodes do not support FTP URLs,
so ewe just have to put
That's not the same flanger as anto has anyway!
Did he not say he has a DOD Stereo Flanger? That's the only one I could find mention of:
I hereby renounce the use of the Flange.
Is too awkward to be useful live - unless your band plays like a metronome - or a midi clock, feline.
Mine doesn't so it's impossible to set the rate correctly
- I'll check the site out later
I don't think it was ever a very good pedal anyway
I'm going acoustic anyway - get back to yer roots and all that.
Now it's all about the songs
- well I know I said it always was but nnow it is - more.
We don't ewse MILI, you siddy man.
Why on earth do ewe think you flange-sweep has to be "in time"
with everything else!?
Anyway, all the best flanges are pretty slow and drastic,
lasting like a bar or so.
I've got a Roktech Flanger.
It was cheap as fcuk and does the job if you ask me...it's got a feedback knob and *everything*.
It is also rather useless to me as I gave up all them thar guitar antics a good four years ago.
FLANGE EWER BASS GEETAR ewe crazy fewl!
Hast thou not heard the glory of those early Simple Minds
and Magazine albums, for instance? Or Tubeway Army?
Talk to the Body!
Rhythm of Cruelty!
I dunno...I always think bassists who surround themselves with effects should concentrate a bit more on their actual playing :/
Besides, decent effects pedals are bloody expensive, whereas practicing your ass off till your a good player is free.
So ewe think if ewe occasionally play though the pedal ewe already own,
you will be a werse player?!?
Ach no...but I wouldn't wanna fall into any bad habits ;)