1. avatar EPK
    Here's an attempt at it.
    Any idea of how best to circulate it, other than as a CC on a mailing list?


    To:     LEDU Chief Executive
    Stuart Bailie
    Ross Graham
    Conor Garrett
    Maurice Jay
    Susan Enan
    Richard Abbott
    Gary Aiken
    Paul Brown
    Pearse Moore
    Phil Woolsey
    Chris Allen


    Please take note that I, the undersigned, in my capacity as a member/prospective member of the above Government assisted body, hereby give notice that I submit this letter by way of an expression of no confidence in the board as detailed above.

    Since the election and appointment of the above board members over twelve months ago and the subsequent lapsing of membership and, accordingly, their mandate , members have received nothing by way of communication from this board despite numerous representations and requests for same in both a personal manner and via various written communications by my fellow members. As such I regard the treatment by the board of their members as nothing short of contempt
    It is, therefore, my considered opinion that this board, in its entirety and since its formation, has been dismissive of and disrespectful and non-communicative towards its membership. As such I cannot lend further credence to a body which, in its initial stages, seemed to offer so much hope but which has subsequently become a “talking shop” for a select few who are unwilling to engage or inform their membership.

    Accordingly I would ask that you suspend any anticipated appointments for the posts of Chief Executive Officer and Information Officer until such time as the appointment of a new board, more representative of the ground swell of musical opinion and membership in this region, can be arrived at.

    Trusting that you shall note and acknowledge my concerns and advise accordingly.

    Edited by: Eamonn P Keyes  at: 5/19/01 1:07:20 pm
  2. avatar feline1
    I'm not even sure ewe need to say anything about
    membership lapsing after 12 months -
    I mean was this ever actually documented anywhere?
    (I guess I should try and find a copy of Shep's
    mailout with the voting papers from Feb 2000)

    The Edmund Report may have suggested such a year's free
    membership, but it was only a strategy/proposal kinda document,
    not a rule book.
  3. avatar EPK
    Well, for it not to be a rule book it has been followed, with no alternative notified from the committee, so
    I think it's safe enough to regard it as the basis for business. Doesn't matter anyway...no general meeting of members since inception, so the constitution and articles of association would be interesting to read, as in most bodies a general meeting of members is necessary.
  4. avatar Geekster
    Speaking as a non-member / observer type then if ever there was a reason to have a vote of no confidence surely it's this little gem I plucked from another thread...

    "it's all starting once they DO appoint the CEO and other guy (information officer?)...once those people actually are paid to do something they will and the £1500000 hasn't been touched yet...although the chief of the board (can't remember name) is applying for CEO..."

    What a positively wildly absurd notion. Surely his, or for that matter any member of the current board, having been involved in the drafting of the job specs would preclude him from applying?

    Jobs for the boys anyone.....?
  5. avatar four star recordings
    christ! i hope i don't get sued.
    i'm not 100% CERTAIN....
    i am!! damn them!
  6. avatar feline1
    Well, whatever the technicalities of the wordings,
    I most certainly have no confidence whatsoever in the
    current members of the NIMIC committee either to represent
    my interests as a musician and/or further the objectives
    outlined in the Edmund Report, and I'd be lying
    if I said otherwise.
  7. avatar Suki Monster
    I know who these people are

    Stuart Bailie

    Maurice Jay

    Susan Enan

    Phil Woolsey

    Chris Allen
    who are these people?

    Ross Graham

    Conor Garrett

    Richard Abbott

    Gary Aiken

    Paul Brown
  8. avatar feline1
    Conor Garrett is on [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/atl[/url] (Across the Line)
    on the "meet the team" (or whatever it's called) page,
    where he is presented as a journalist.
    (which is odd, cos he was elected to be a *Unpolishable Turd* rep,
    and as stubey has explained to us, Journalists are certainly not in *that* category)

    I know nuffink of the others.
  9. avatar spaniel
    The Judean Peoples Front?

    The Peoples Front of Judea?

    How long have these bunch of dicks been together and what have they done?

    Stroke each others egos and talk a load of balls!

    Listen all you musicians, we deserve better than this.
    I know this place has been a war zone for the last 30 odd years and we have all suffered from it but are we gonna let this bunch of slimy bastards feed of us?

    I think not. COME ON!

    Eamonn, can you get any press interest in this?

    What about Mr Hero. I would say he would be up for it.

    Jelly Face is watching.
  10. avatar feline1
    Maybe we could get Johnny Hero to go on a protest Hunger Strike?
  11. avatar ClayPeterFace
    My first post!
    Mike Edgar would just sneak him in Ready Brek again.
  12. avatar Doo Waa
    Gary Aiken is a producer/studio owner.
    He owns Novatech and believe it or not produced our first demo, which was crap really but we got a lot of plays on the radio with it.
    He was decent enough, however did have trouble pretending to be interested in us.
  13. avatar spaniel
    No Feline 1, it would take Johnny too long to die.

    MMmm, but those other hunger strikes did actually work, as we who live here can see.

    Man date, do you want a man date Sir?

    OOugh suit you!

    Oh hide me away, please hide me away, or should I run away?
  14. avatar EPK
    I'm not interested in press interest. I just want to pull the whole rotten facade of this temple down. Nobody deserves the contempt shown by these people.
  15. avatar BlimeyitsSimey
    Right, let's get this printed, circulated and signed.

  16. avatar Geekster
    Ross Graham is, I believe, an ex MCA employee of some standing and the current manager / label owner responsible for Ursuala burns (she of "Sinister Nips" "fame").

    Richard Abbott is rumoured to be the brains behind Bluenote Publishing who has flaunted, with alarming regularity, with Eurovision entries from these shores. Can we blame his over involvement with NIMIC for the @#%$ poor showing by Ireland this year?

    Paul Brown is, and I have no reason to doubt this, the product of a totally legal consummation between a certain Mr & Mrs Brown (snr).

    These brief personal histories might not necessarily be entirely accurate but they are what I have managed to glean from the numerous NIMIC press releases which one manages to find lying all over the place!
  17. avatar Suki Monster
    And were would one find these NIMIC press releases lying about?
  18. avatar fourstarrecordings69
    My first post!
    What contempt?
    Just cos we don't KNOW what they've done doesn't mean they haven't done anything.
    Give it a couple more weeks...
  19. avatar EPK
    You're new here. Many of us have been going on about this for more than two years, and we haven't time for you to play catch up. They've had ample time and done nothing.
  20. avatar EPK
    I'll shortly be emailing all of the people I know here with the above no confidence document.
    What I'd like is for people to type their name at the end, plus a comment if they wish, and return it to me by email.
    The outward path
    and return path will authenticate them.
    I need real names, not Fastfude aliases, so I'll be using them as much as possible....but you can use your real name followed by your FF alias in brackets as well....that'll help give FF credibility as a real voice also. Anybody else who wants to stand up and be counted email me, and I'll include you as well.
    If people don't wish to sign, non-return or adverse comments will remain confidential.
    It's about time the whole ridiculous enterprise was made accountable and brought to account.
    It's your future, and you should have a say. Edited by: Eamonn P Keyes  at: 5/20/01 3:41:48 pm
  21. avatar die the flu
    Do "prospective members" votes actually carry any weight?
  22. avatar EPK
    As much as anyone's, since legally there are now no members, as due to the incompetence of the body membership was for a period of one year, and this lapsed in February of this year. I was a member. Now I'm just a prospective member. If you're a prospective member, you'll probably be accorded the same rights and communication as a full member was. That is, none.
    Don't forget, NIMIC is claiming to speak on your behalf as a musician. Edited by: Eamonn P Keyes  at: 5/20/01 4:15:29 pm
  23. avatar ClayPeterFace
    The edmund report reads;
  24. avatar feline1
    I have signed mine and sent it back y'all!
    (BTW, Eamonn, ewe sent it in MS Word97 format.
    Not everyone may be able to "handle" that....)

    Fourstarrecordings y'all,
    for example of some "contempt" ewe could look at some
    of NIMIC board member Stuart Baille's various comments
    on local musicians on the discussion boards at his
    Of course, he'll attempt to qualify them as off-the-cuff
    generalisations, spat out in the heat of an argument, etc etc.
    But they're still there on his site for all the Net to read.

    Not for one minute to diss Stubey's talent as a music writer,
    but I don't feel it's appropriate that someone on the board of
    a official government funded body to further the cause of the
    Norn Irond Music Industry should regularly go on record as
    describing the majority of Norn Irond musicians as
    unpolishable turds who should know when to call it a day.
    Those kind of gaffes are best left to Tory MPs :-)
  25. avatar ClayPeterFace
    Yes my post above makes no sense - EZboard's fault

    Basically I had quoted the part of the edmund report where it describes who caould be NIMIC member; it basically says anyone involved in the music industry here, including artists.

    So if we can't become members because the board aren't doing their job, then they are answerable to anyone who is eligible to become a member.
    I'd be glad to sign the petition EPK

    It's about time these people got out of the way and allowed people who actually want to do something about the music industry here to do their thang.
  26. avatar The Fires of Hell
    I think you have explained to me before epk, but ive forgotten: what servies do NIMIC actually offer? Is it financial backing for chosen bands or free promotion or what?

    If functioning, what would the typical allocation of all this cash have been?
  27. avatar Niall Harden
    the actual cash is for administrative purposes mostly, they aim to set up a framework for the actual music industry here (whatever that means) so as all bands have a better opportunity etc etc
    a load of waffly cack...which roughly equates to approximately zero.
  28. avatar feline1
    My favourite part of the Edmund Report is para 4.1 & 4.2,
    (written in April 1999 y'all):

    At this time awareness and understanding of what
    NIMIC set out to
    do is low; its credibility is lower still. The perception is of vested
    interests and a lack of consultation. Irrespective of how wrong this perception
    may (be,) it is the mountain
    NIMIC has to climb before it can expect
    to achieve any of its aims....

    ....In order to move forward
    NIMIC must make every effort to take the
    sector with it. There has to be seen to be a new beginning and the processes
    involved in the formation of the organisation must be transparent. This openess
    alone will not deliver credibility but it will be a start.

    I have this framed on wall in my toilet ;-) Edited by: feline1 at: 5/20/01 8:59:40 pm
  29. avatar Geekster
    Well praline, since that section of the report is framed and hanging on your bog wall it's little wonder that the board haven't acted on it!!

    It's truly remarkable how coincidental things can be. I myself have been adopting an almost "board like" attitude to the Report of late and it has saved me considerable excess outlay on Andrex.
  30. avatar exax2
    My first post!
    Okay, I'm not on either side of the fence here. My position is that I am willing to wait until the posts are filled before I expect to see some movement from NIMIC. Can I ask who you would suggest fill the board places if the aforementioned are deposed? And also what alternatives you might suggest if NIMIC fails to meet your expectations?
  31. avatar EPK
    Marty, it's up to the people involved in the industry to decide that, which they did over 15 months ago.
    That was the only communication I've ever had from Nimic...the application for membership and ballot paper to elect committee members. I heard about who was elected by word of mouth, as did most people...including some elected to the committee.
    I think that 15 months of absolutely zero communication, no general meeting of members and no attempt to consult or even renew membership is enough time to decide that they're incompetent and should be told they have no mandate with which to proceed. They have even ignored their own Edmunds report, which, filled with their whining, had sections that were disgracefully included to exclude themselves from criticism.
    The additional information...if it's true....that people from the committee will be seeking appointment to the jobs they themselves drew up job descriptions of is unheard of in employment practice, and in itself will open action against their appointment if it takes place,on a number of unfair employment issues.
    A lot of the basic points of the Edmunds Report are sound, but now, over a year and a half since it was published, we are still chasing people trying to get them to communicate with their membership. They've had too much time already,and on the basis of what they've done so far in the time provided, should be removed.
    The music industry needs so badly to be put on some sort of footing, but the way things are going it'll be your grandchildren that benefit.
  32. avatar Suki Monster
    Exactly how much money do the NIMIC have?
  33. avatar EPK
    The figure bandied around is in the region of £1.4 million.
  34. avatar beerdrinkinfool
    My first post!
    in order to get everyone here to actually put their name down for thw vote of no confidence - set a date by which people must do this, the end of this week or something
  35. avatar fastfude
    Just a note on the money aspect - I suspect some people think that the cash would be given by NIMIC to a band of their choice or somesuch to catapult them to the stars. I don't think that's the case, it's far more likely that the money would be used in a LEDU/DETI fashion to support music-related business growth.
    For example, someone could go to NIMIC and say "I am a local promoter/label owner, I want to expand my business and take a few more bands under my wing. In doing so, I'd like to be able to employ more staff for PR, label management etc, can you subsidise their wages until we're established enough to turn a profit?"
    Basically, things like creating employment opportunities and business growth would be where the cash would go, not into a new Hear'Say (not directly anyway, maybe the label getting the subsidy works in that genre, but that's neither here nor there)

    At least, I assume that's the plan...
  36. avatar die the flu
    Actually, I wasn't meant to tell anyone this, but they're giving that £1.4million to me, just cuz I'm so cool y'all ;)

    Grovel at my feet and I might buy you a pint.
  37. avatar Rich9
    My first post!
    as far as i'm aware they'll have enough money to establish the office, pay the staff and start the process rolling.

    part of the job desc. of the Chief exec deals with the ability to secure funding from a variety of sources for a variety of projects, thereby instilling a self-sufficient imperative to the organisation from the start.

    given the track record of the music industry here, i doubt anyone would give a fledgling board £1.3m

    i would imagine that if a person were to seek funding for a project such as the one Rog outlines above, NIMIC would have the information and resources at hand to introduce that person to bodies (ie. LEDU) that already deal with such a process, and aid them in successful completion of that process.
  38. avatar EPK
    Rog and Rich are broadly right in what they're describing.
    The money isn't going to be split up amongst people, but will instead be used to lay a solid foundation for the Music Industry here. You know the way people are asking for info on practice places, how to record, how to get gigs and how to contact record companies? That's what they should be doing, providing the answers.
    Training, which is already partly met by some of the Music technology courses around, but on a greater scale and with more tie-ins to local gigs.
    More info on how the business operates, how contracts work, on how you best utilise your resources as a band to make the biggest impact. That's the sort of issues that should have been dealt with a long time ago.
    If it had been done properly you'd now be reaping the benefits of it, but nothing has been delivered, no-one knows if it will be, and no-one has yet asked for the opinions of the people who'll be utilising the services and hoping to make a career from it. After years and years, the NIMIC committee's (still broadly the same from its inception) only idea of what to do is......to appoint someone else to do it. And pay the main man a Large Sum Of Money. And guess who's most likely to get it?
    Let's see if we 'll be surprised. Nice work if you can get it, and you most likely can, if you write the job description for your own job.
  39. avatar feline1
    ANother thing the Edmund Report suggested NIMIC should do
    is promote NornIrond music to an international audience,
    for example at Algerian Fish restaurants and the like.
    "The best unpolishable turds in Europe", the publicity
    will read... :-/
  40. avatar EPK
    Less than 24 hours from putting the stuff around, I've around 40 signatures, with many more people asking for the petition to be sent to them. I'm a bit humbled.
    I reckoned I'd get maybe 30 tops. Thanx to everyone who has helped so far. It's your musical future, and you deserve better.
  41. avatar Geekster
    Surely "NOW That's what I call Unpolishable -1" has a much more distinctive ring to it!
  42. avatar Niall Harden
    should just bloody well be a record label and studio and big nerve-centrey ting only better and just be really ace. p'raps. they could record bands and stuff and sign good ones and put their stuff out and promote it and put on gigs and stuff.
    well p'raps they couldn't but they could HELP.
    give me the money and i'll do it.
  43. avatar feline1
    Well ewe see, Niall,
    if NIMIC held public meetings and stuff,
    then ewe'd be able to tell them ewer ideas
    and suggestions for how ewe think things should
  44. avatar Niall Harden
    They did have pulic meetings, surely, as my dad was at them
    the fact is though, I
    a)am 17
    b)am a 'musician'
    c)am rarely taken seriously and
    d)have silly hair

    hence there was no invitation on MY doorstep!
    well, there was, i suppose
    but it wasn't for me
  45. avatar feline1
    No ewe crazy fule,
    there was ONE meeting, singular,
    to which select "industry" people were invited,
    not unpolishable turds like us.
  46. avatar Niall Harden
    Are you absolutely certain there was only one meeting? Crikey! I have been misinformed...wait...was this a meeting of the public re: NIMIC, a meeting of members Re: NIMIC or a meeting of the 'board' (that's all a bit mafia isn't it?) re: so, chaps, what are we going to do??
  47. avatar EPK
    There was one meeting, and that was even before the election was held. I received a phone call about it from someone "in the know" saying a meeting was being held in 90 minutes time. No advertisement was issued, and the only invites seem to be for the mates and cronies of the steering committee. Musicians were conspicuous by their almost total absence.
    And that's you lot. It was nearly two years ago, if my memory serves me right, which is unlikely.
  48. avatar feline1
    Bill Guinney was there!

    We could ask him to tell us what happened ;-)
  49. avatar die the flu
    Whoops-a-daisy, a joke in poor taste...Fixed by the magic of an edit key!! Edited by: die the flu at: 5/21/01 11:16:56 pm
  50. avatar Doo Waa
    You're wee bands fuckin' brilliant.
    I'll get ya a gig with Co.Uk.................

    Years later.......

    You went away and forgot about me after all I did for you.
    You're fuckin' shiite.

    Last I ever spoke to Bill.
  51. avatar Geekster
    Oooops....must be contageous!!!

    Edited by: Geekster at: 5/21/01 11:20:13 pm
  52. avatar Niall Harden
    Je ne comprends pas...
  53. avatar die the flu
    More editing to fix an easily misinterpretated joke...Ooooh, the intrigue :) Edited by: die the flu at: 5/21/01 11:19:58 pm
  54. avatar exax2
    There have been two meetings as far as I am aware and I was at one. The meeting I was at was a slanging match even then and the committee got such a hammering from musicians, journalists, promoters etc that it was unreal. Maybe this explains their reluctance to stick their heads above water since. I don't know.

    I do however think that a public message board is a very bad place to be doing this in that it could influence those with no opinion or limited knowledge to become biased against NIMIC and the people involved who also have other careers and interests that could be adversely affected. I don't think that this is any way reasonable.

    Maybe you should invite the board to a meeting somewhere and put your questions to them in private, in a controlled atmosphere to avoid the last nonsense being repeated. Only a suggestion...
  55. avatar Geekster
    Fair point(s) Exax. However, past experience would suggest that the "board" are more than reticent about communication than it simply being a matter of yes / no. As such it's evident that another "private" meeting will only serve to fuel the fires of mistrust on this issue.

    Open and accountable are two "buzz words" of the moment and "other interests which could adversely be affected" are, I would assume, of secondary interest to the membership.

    Aside from FastFude the only other mediums for discussion are Oh Yeah & the NI.Music discussion forums. Bearing this in mind then surely the board members could deign themselves to access one medium to address the issue rather than continuing on what has so evidently become a cloak and dagger state of affairs.

    I don't think that a closed doors attitude, even with the involvement of the membership, will serve any purpose.

    Above we have evidence of a local journalist being more au fait with the machinations of the board and attending meetings on a more regular basis than members (see posts by Niall Harden) to the point whereby the future of the board and its intended course of action on behalf of its membership is a topic of after dinner discussion in a private household. If I were a member then I'd be insulted by this type of affrontery.

    "Facts" and figures are being bandied about with an alarming degree of regularity on this thread and now we have a scenario with God knows how many views and posts and still not a singular response from a board member or representative. This type of disregard is wholly representative of the points laid out in the draft of no confidence.
  56. avatar fastfude
    While the chaos of that Auntie Annies meeting many moons ago was certainly a fairly discouraging carry-on, I don't think that can account for the complete silence from NIMIC, as there are countless other channels to broadcast from besides an Open Floor type format. I think some form of public announcement, a press release of some kind, to address the concerns of the members (if we are?) would be more than welcome. That would at least slow the constantly growing sense of alienation?
  57. avatar Rich9
    AFAIK the Auntie Annies meeting was an open debate on the music scene hosted by Belfest, and featuring members of the then steering committee. This was longish time after the official fact finding meeting the John Edmunds held in the Limelight.

    They didn't have much of an opportunity to discuss NIMIC or anything related since Bill Guinney, lion hearted saviour of local music that he is, spent most of the evening slagging off Terry Hooley cos he owed him £20 for a guitar or something.

    At that time it seemed like there'd be more progress as at lot of things were happening behind the scenes, many promises made etc...
  58. avatar feline1
    How completely ahine! :-)
    Maybe Tezza should have pawned his glass eye to pay for that geetar,
    then all would have been well...

    Here's some of the things which I would have EXPECTED to have
    been done by the committee over the past 18 months:

    After fliers advertising for membership had been distributed
    in musik shops around Belfast, and a wee advert put on the web
    (linked to by Fastfude), and the Edmund report was published
    on LEDU's website (all of which was a perfectly
    competant beginning, I'll happily say - we're talking Autumn 1999 here),
    I think an effort should have been made to either respond to
    people's membership applications, acknowledging them,
    or, if that was financially unfeasible, the same channels
    (local Music shops, that webpage, and LEDU's site) should have been
    used to post a wee note saying "we've got ewer applications,
    they're being processed! hooray!" or sthg.

    (Instead, what happened, was that, several months on (Jan 2000?),
    no-one who applied had heard a single thing back, and it was only
    after I made repeated approaches to one of the then steering committee
    (I forget who, now, actually! was it stubey? or Ross Graham? or
    someone else?) that they finally sent me an email which I was then
    able to post on Fastfude, letting everyone know they were still alive.)

    Then, wee Shep organised the Ballot for the present committee,
    with a mailout to everyone who applied for membership,
    and the committee were elected.

    At this point, I would have expected a formal notification of the
    election results to members. If the cost of individual mailouts
    was again prohibitive, a note through the previous channels
    (little posters in Local music shops, the webpage & LEDU site)
    would have been an acceptable temporary measure.

    After this, I would have expected the following:

    - An advertised official contact address for the elected NIMIC
    committee, so that members could communicate with those
    elected to represent them, and raise any issues which they'd like
    their reps to discuss at committee meetings on their behalf.

    - Some kind of regular, basic information of the elected committee's
    activities (again, perhaps best communicated at least cost over the web),
    giving (a summary of?) minutes of each meeting, and the date of the next

    I think the sort of stuff I have outlined above is the bare
    minimum that members should have been able to expect from the
    former Steering Committee, and then the elected committee.

    If it had happened, I very much doubt that any of the current
    gnashing of teeth would be happening.

    Because it didn't happen, I have no confidence whatsoever in
    the ability of the elected committee to represent our interests
    and further the objectives of the Edmund report -
    instead, they have done terrible damage to the grass-roots perception
    of NIMIC.
  59. avatar Meerium
    I went to a meeting in the Empire years ago (might have been 98, might have been 96) where Jim Heaney was on a platform with a woman from the Film Council, which I think is possibly the only official NIMIC related open meeting that there's been (cos the Auntie Annies one was indeed a Belfest job rather than an official NIMIC doozy). Since then I've had some chats with Susan Enan and she was able to tell me very little about what was going on, rather giving me the impression that the meetings were very long and decided very little. I've been in a lucky position in that I knew a Board member as a friend, and therefore did get some informal updates, but that isn't an acceptable way to run an organisation.

    I think what Feline lays out above is absolutely right in that it is the minimun we as a membership should have expected. Feline for the NIMIC CEO anyone?!!
  60. avatar Daithi jasper
    Dear God don't get him started....
  61. avatar feline1

    Well, I would have put myself forward as a candidate to be on the NIMIC
    committee, but I live and werk in England, so it wouldn't really be possible for me to participate on a daily physical basis with stuff.
  62. avatar Meerium
    The Board all live here and it seems to have hindered their participation on a daily physical basis
  63. avatar feline1
    ewe do have a point there, Meerium ;-)
  64. avatar exax2
    I don't think this is the right place for a debate, nor Oh Yeah, nor NI Music.com or anywhere else. I do think that the formal arrangement of a meeting with elected representatives of the music scene and the board would be more productive than a public free for all.

    In their position, I doubt I would reply to an on-line forum. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how that would end up. However a formal invite would force these people to decline or attend. Like I said, only a suggestion but if you give it to the board in an atmosphere of calm, perhaps they'll play ball...
  65. avatar Suki Monster
    I think that this is the perfect place for it as we are the people it will be effecting or not as the case is.
  66. avatar feline1
    Mmmm - Marty I hear what ewe are saying,
    but I think ewe misunderstand what this thread is about:

    it's not, I don't think, about trying to engage the committee
    in dialogue, and find out what's been going on.

    It's many months too late for that.

    No, I think this thread is just to facilitate the collection
    of members' signatures, for a vote of "no confidence".
    These will then be presented to the committee that we
    elected to represent us in Feb 2000.
  67. avatar exax2
    Yes Feline but my opinion is that posts on this site or any other by moderators / regular contributors etc could be influential over those who previously had no opinion, or knowledge that is limited to a one sided argument. I think in short that a post of this nature on any site encourages bias against the board and the people involved in it. It is unfair and manipulative whereas an election for representatives, if organised properly, could offer a bunch of people who have a stake a voice in a private and orderly fashion. I think it would give the whole thing a credability that it at present lacks being that right now this is the ethical equivalent of a witch-hunt.
  68. avatar feline1
    Auch well, hmmmmmmmm - to some extent I agree, Marty -
    obviously, *any* organisation which is seen to
    undergo a Vote of No Confidence is going to have
    it's public image damaged. That is unavoidable.

    However, so is - I feel - said vote.
    Because we (I expect the vote will show) *have* 'No Confidence'
    in them.
    And thus we feel that unless something is done (sooner rather
    than later), a helluva lot *more* damage could be done
    than this temporary PR blip.

    As I said, this thread is just to mobilise things.
    Who knows what smoke-filled back rooms the ensueing
    shenanigans will take place in.
    Whatever the case, people will always talk and speculate
    on public forums about it.

    I mean do ewe think we *want* to have to take things along
    this sorry course of action!!?!
    It's been forced upon the members by the committee's insistence
    on being COMPLETELY ahine :-( Edited by: feline1 at: 5/22/01 5:50:26 pm
  69. avatar die the flu
    I'm reluctant to sign the frickin' thing...I don't feel I know enough about it to put my name forward for a vote of no confidence :/
  70. avatar Geekster
    "....but my opinion is that posts on this site or any other by moderators / regular contributors etc could be influential over those who previously had no opinion, or knowledge that is limited to a one sided argument".

    Marty, would your opinion in this regard also extend to remarks concerning, lets say for example, someone labelling the majority of guitar bands from this region as "unpolishable turds"?

    Feline has a point, and indeed I think everyone subscribing to this vote of no confidence has a point. This issue is clear cut, it involves a motion of no confidence in the present board based on the many shortcomings detailed in this and many other threads. This is not a glib attempt at Relate type counselling over tea and biscuits. A line has obviously been drawn.

    DTF, your quandry is understandable however let me put it in the form of an analogy. Are you happy with things as they have been over the last three years with regards to the activities of your band and their advancement with the assistance of NIMIC? If so then simply elect not to subscribe to the vote of No Confidence. If on the other hand you are not then you know what to do.
  71. avatar EPK
    Marty, m'lad...I still think you don't understand.
    The reason we've got to this point is because the committee has not been communicating, and despite many attempts to bring that about...many of them NOT on public forums, have still refused to do so.
    Shep himself...then a steering committee member....said there would be a general meeting. This never happened, and just before that, Shep left the committee.
    I've talked personally to committee members, and some have remarked on the fact that even in committee they're largely ignored.
    I've also written to the initial LEDU boyo in charge, Bill Scott, and got........no answer.
    I received one glib letter from his predecessor, John Mc Clelland, saying that I was a bad boy for questioning them, and inviting me to call him.
    When I did several times I got........no answer.
    How much more formal do you want.
    Now,where else but in the largest music forum in Northern Ireland should the people who will be affected by the committee's decisions be informed of what is being done IN THEIR NAME and without reference to them.
    Now, we've had utterances from two present committee members on this site and your own site, so they haven't lost the power of communication...especially when they're pushing their own endeavours.
    Like most people, I thought it was initially a wonderful idea,and joined up immediately, but the rapid deterioration of the early possibilities to the reality of a
    silent Politburo has killed that.
    There are many ways to communicate, and a public board is dandy for some things, but when we're talking about NIMIC, we're not talking about their responding to a board, we're talking about their responding to their members, who elected them in the first place.
    Edited by: Eamonn P Keyes  at: 5/22/01 7:55:34 pm
  72. avatar feline1
    Mmmm, and any tarnishing to the name of NIMIC by a No Confidence
    vote is nothing compared to the tarnishing that the committee
    have already allowed to happen so far, as the Edmund Report warned
    would be the case if they didn't conduct things in an
    open and tranparent manner.
    Just what part of sections 4.1 & 4.2 of that report didn't they
    understand, exactly!?!
    Or did they not accept the recommendations of the very report which
    brought them into existence in the first place!?
  73. avatar exax2
    Yes but there are others. The people who run the radio shows, record labels etc who are surely under NIMIC's juristiction and will surely be as affected by their decisions as any band. These people are largely isolated from Internet message boards for some very good and broad reaching reasons. Are they not to have a voice? An opportunity to give their side of the story? This is the credability you lack and this simply comes across as a few people with a commonality having a go...

    I know you appreciate the honesty Eammon.

    And as for the unpolishable turds comments, it's alarming how many bands have endeavoured to associate themselves with comment. In the words of old Dolly with the baps "I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden." Edited by: exax2 at: 5/22/01 11:52:59 pm
  74. avatar fastfude
    not sure I understand what you mean there, who is currently under NIMIC's jurisdiction? Do you mean the members of the committee who work in the areas you mentioned? If so, I'm not sure what the concern is, as what they do in their 9 to 5 is their own biz, it's what they do as part of the committee folks are concerned about.
    In terms of having a voice, as industry contributors in their various professions, they could express their opinions in whichever public forum they choose if they choose to do so, but as NIMIC committee members, we're actively pleading for communication and not getting it! We *want* to hear their side of the story, to see wtf has been going on for the last few years, that's the crux of the grumbling after all?

    "it's alarming how many bands have endeavoured to associate themselves with comment" - between you 'n' me, I think it's 'cos they didn't appreciate it
  75. avatar exax2
    This is why I'm saying that an on-line forum is the wrong place to be doing this. Many people I know will not post here or on Oh Yeah or anywhere else due to bitter experience. I make myself open and meet my fair share of contempt, most of it completely without knowledge or solid reason. Others are not so forthcoming and make up a huge part of the musical population in this town both in terms of numbers and influence... these people deserve to be given their place. That's why I suggested a meeting with invites etc, properly organised etc...

    To gauge a feeling about NIMIC and its practices thus far surely you people need to know what these people think. Otherwise you may hit more than one brick wall and cause yourselves more harm than good...
  76. avatar Cormcolash
    My first post!
    Well that could be tried, but something tells me there might be a distinct lack of NIMIC people at the meeting.
  77. avatar fastfude
    I can appreciate why they wouldn't post directly onto a messageboard, but there are alternative workarounds, such as the press release idea, which could subsequently be posted onto the various sites & mailing lists etc. Or, passing the info through intermediaries such as the site admins, which could potentially evolve into a 2-way transfer of info as admins filter user requests & queries back to the committee, etc.
    I'm basically trying explore ideas that would relay information to as wide an audience as possible in as short a time possible. While a controlled environment / closed door type meeting would certainly provide a stable platform for the committee to present from, I'm worried that it would be too inefficient at info relay and seen as somewhat condescending towards the uninvited members. Who would be considered important or relevant enough to be invited, etc... With morale at a fairly certain low these days, that probably won't help the cause...

    Actually, as I type this I'm thinking, what purpose could be fulfilled by an invite only meeting that couldn't be stated on paper anyway? If the members won't be able to put their side to the committee in person, I don't imagine there'd be much else than a series of statements read by a committee rep.
    Given the organisation & resources required, it might be time better spent preparing for an AGM of some kind further down the road, and as preparation for that, some research and addressing of member concerns to form an agenda for said meeting. Perhaps the invite meeting could be undertaken in such a spirit... Any thoughts?
  78. avatar EPK
    It was Lynn Anderson, Marty, not Dolly.:-)
    BUT.....all I've actually done is to repeat the concerns which were voiced by LEDU itself in the Edmunds Report, which told the committee that it would have to be more communicative, and that any future dealings would need to be transparent in order to avoid the criticism they'd already attracted.
    Now, if the committee is prepared to ignore the advice of the very body that is funding them, there's obviously something very wrong with some mindsets involved there, and I don't see them coming forward to any meeting, as they not only ignored their members, but the statement of an ex-committee member that there was to be such a meeting.
    Let's put the blame where it belongs Marty, I think the premise that it's actually the members fault that the committee don't talk to them is so funny that it ain't funny.
  79. avatar exax2
    Hmmm, it was a suggestion Eammon not a justification. Elected reps, elected by the members and trusted to send feedback to the members afterwards, that's my idea. If there was a solid sense of community or purpose among people in the music scene all of this would probably not seem such a daunting task. But there ain't. Personally I've never seen the music scene here so stagnant and I can't see how it can be harmed further by NIMIC getting on its feet. Sure, they may have fucked up a bit but were all guilty of that to some extent...

    It's a waiting game this one I think...
  80. avatar Anonymous
    My first post!
    anyone else lost in this thread? or NIMIC in general. it confuses me lots and lots.
  81. avatar feline1
    That's just cos ewe're always drunk, johnny :-)

    Marty, however, has no such excuse :-)
    Elected reps, elected by the members and trusted to send feedback to the members afterwards, that's my idea.

    Er, yeah, that's what everyone else wanted to happen to, with the one important
    exception of the elected reps themselves. Hence the vote of no confidence.

    Personally I've never seen the music scene here so stagnant

    How many gigs by local bands have ewe been to in the last 6 months exactly, young Marty...?

    and I can't see how it can be harmed further by NIMIC getting on its feet.

    By what precedent exactly do ewe expect the current committee to be able to get on their feet?

    Sure, they may have fucked up a bit but were all guilty of that to some extent...

    Well, I made a mistake back in 1996 once, I think, but that was *ages* ago...
  82. avatar Geekster
    "People may delude themselves if they wish, but the Northern Ireland music scene is much bigger, and better at present, than many people who 'can't get a break' would like to believe" (Marty on Oh Yeah "unchallenging cont'd" page 4 25/04/2001-19:27hrs).

    "Personally I've never seen the music scene here so stagnant...." (Marty on fastfude "NIMIC No Confidence Vote" page 4 23/05/2001- 17:29hrs).

    Have I missed something over the past month?
  83. avatar Chris Allen
    My first post!
    NIMIC, is now in the final stages of the legal incorporation process.  This needs to be in place before we can move onwards. This has not been an easy or enjoyable process but a necessary one to gain full legal status and eventual financial assistance for the body.

    A letter to all existing members has been drafted for about a month and we were waiting for final legal completion before mailing to members.  However, we have decided to go ahead and mail the letter to all members . Once members have had a chance to read it, we will be glad to post the information in all relevant media, including this site.   
  84. avatar feline1

    So, NIMIC does seem to regard all member's memberships as valid then?

    I wonder what percentage of these mailed out letters will be pointless,
    since their recipents have changed address since Autumn 1999, and have
    not had a means to notify NIMIC of their new address?
    (Thankfully mine hasn't changed, so I look forward eagerly to
    getting my letter. Hooray!)

    It is interesting that legal incorporation is possible without
    there ever having been an AGM of any sort.
  85. avatar fastfude
    Hooray indeed! It's a start anyways, n'est-ce pas?
    My address *has* changed, though, how do I go about updating it?
  86. avatar Chris Allen
    If you're a member and you need to update your address details, email them to me.
  87. avatar spaniel
    Well done Eamonn.
    A result of sorts.

    It seems a discussion on a public forum was indeed a good idea.

    In a months time I will contradict myself ;-)
  88. avatar EPK
    Still worried about this legal status thing.
    I was mentioning last summer that they needed to be legally incorporated before anything could be done,and so could we have a members meeting asap, please. I was sniffed at.
    A later it's being said that everything has to be legally incorporated before NIMIC can act.
    It's good to see SOME movement, and I'd thank Chris for that, but I suspect many more answers are going to be sought as to what happened in the past 15 months, and going on the evidence so far, there's not a lot has been done, if we're at that that same point.
    I want most elements of the Edmunds report to be enacted, but enacted by people who I feel will fully represent the music scene here, and who will be safe hands in which to leave relevant matters.
    I've certainly haven't seen or felt that, nor am I likely to without positive action, full explanations, transparent process, and accountability.
  89. avatar Suki Monster
    how doe one become a member?
  90. avatar Niall Harden
    heh heh i was talkin to pops aboot NIMIC today in the car and asked about the meetings n stuff and he said
    "well there were two meetings...i think...i was at one of them and it sorta decended into chaos and a slagging match"
    it took me a long time to werk out he was talking about a creditor's meeting thing of That's Entertainment who owe him loads of money n stuff
    oddly enough, the answer was right anyway.
    what were the NIMIC talk things during Belfest? Surely there was a wee presentation thing in some pub and i was there and i can't for the life of me werk out where/when/what it was...
    or maybe i'm randomly making stuff up again
    god i hate a levels...damn IT it's the biggest pile of...
  91. avatar EPK
    The NIMIC meetings we're talking about were at least two years or more ago.
  92. avatar Niall Harden
    erm.......really? the ones of the board? ach, don't reply. i don't really care!
  93. avatar feline1
    I think NIMIC should be ruled by a combination of Niall's hairstyle and Shep's answerphone.
    It would be invincible.
  94. avatar Niall Harden
    yay!! I'm up for it...
    i went to ATC camp and they made me cut it and I looked like Robert Smith and all my powers were gone
  95. avatar feline1
    What is ATC?
    Some kind of Young Fascists club?
    I love militarism, it's so silly - it's great to die with
    an ironic smile on ewer face.
    For example, did ewe know that the Americans were so racist towards
    Japanese folk, that they were convinced that they were all teriffied of
    bats. Thus, after the bombing of Pearl Harbour, General "Roose"velt
    spent millions of dollars trying to develop devices which could launch/drop
    vast quantities of live bats onto Japanese cities.
    Or so I read in a magazine.
  96. avatar Geekster
    Relevance to this thread? Thanks.
  97. avatar feline1
    I was merely creating a diversion whilst
    our undercover agents enacted plan B...
  98. avatar Hazel Who Is Sometimes Ca
    My first post!
    The ATC is the Air Training Corps. It's a bit crappy but we appear to be tha best rifle shooting team in the land, bar none.
  99. avatar Geekster
    Oh, right. I'm with you (not in the biblical sense of course)!
  100. avatar EPK
    I was actually in the ATC. 1137 (Sydenham Squadron)
    It was brill, totally. I flew back seat in F4 Phantoms and also in Vulcans,racked up hours in flight training, and did
    marksmanship at Ballykinlar.Arrived home and still got the @#%$ kicked out of me by squaddies.
    Aaahhh....the seventies.
  101. avatar cosmopolitan
    My first post!
    Thats because you have red skin and horns though. Plainly.
  102. avatar feline1
    Yes but I got a wee letter from NIMIC in the post this morning,
    explaing what they'd be "up" to.
    How ahine!
    I liked the minimalist headed notepaper particularly...
    Very "white".
  103. avatar EPK
    Almost right. I had red skin...mainly spots though...and the horn. Singular, but rampant.
  104. avatar THe Great Pebble
    My first post!
    The more things change the more they........

    Mek !
  105. avatar Meerium
    I can't remember what address NIMIC has for me. And I'm moving and I don't know what my new address is. Karen Lee's House, on of those streets off Penny Lane, Wavertree, Liverpool wouldn't do, would it?!!
  106. avatar EPK
    I'll forward any info I get to you, Meerium, so you're not out of the loop, and then you can forward your address when you get it...OK?
  107. avatar feline1
    Yes but tonight I actually found a copy of the letter Shep sent out to members in Feb 2000, for the ballot to elect the committee.


    Soon I will have all the facts in the world etc etc etc...
  108. avatar Geekster
    "All the facts in the world......????!"

    Elaborate, please.
  109. avatar Niall Harden
    actually don't. cos u were randomly saying stuff again and chances are u didn't mean it.
  110. avatar beerdrinkinfool
    can people who have got this letter put details of it on here so that other people can read it, cheers
  111. avatar EPK
    Yes, I'd like to see the contents, as I'm a member, a troublemaker,an antichrist and a taxpayer and STILL didn't get one.
  112. avatar fastfude
    it's soon to be winging its way to me by post so I'll Scan or OCR & post it once it's here
  113. avatar EPK
    I got mine just this morning.
    Bizarrely, no mention of where it's from, and no signature either.
  114. avatar feline1
    Yes, if ewe read above, ewe'll see I have already
    commented on its "minimalist" headed stationary.

    Shep's letter to the members of Feb 2000 makes interesting reading.
    It claimed that the results of the ballot would be announced
    to members in March 2000.
    It claims that after the ballot count, there would be
    a general meeting of members to confirm the newly elected
    board into office & legally constitute NIMIC,
    and that the elected board would be in office for 1 year.

    Since none of this happened, it may be pondered if the
    entire thing was not ahine?
  115. avatar EPK
    See the "Nimic Statement" thread...now up.
  116. avatar spaniel
    to see someone from the "mainland" cares so much.

    It brought a tear to my little "provence" eye.

    No really. But for the wrong reasons.
  117. avatar feline1
    ewe seem to go to great lengths to be
    rude and irksome towards me at times :-(
    This makes me AHINEENNIENENIENIEN!?!? in surprise.

    I trust when ewe are a famous pop star ewe
    will make sure that none of ewer records are
    allowed to be sold outside of Ulster,
    and that no tour of ewers ever crosses the Irish Sea,
    so as to ensure ewer validity.
  118. avatar Tomsthumb
    Do you realy want to do this.

    I mean the FF board hasnt exscaualy been friendly this past while.
    Its turned into an english lession lately.
    I for one I'm sick of it,

    NIMIC hasnt been the same I must idmit, but new management and all takes a bit of time because they have to Re-do Everything from Contacts and promo's
  119. avatar tinpot anto
    7 Years in Tibet?
  120. avatar RockShandy
    Blimey, didn't even know the internet existed in 2001.
  121. avatar Recycled Alien
    [quote:e48efcb29d="RockShandy"]Blimey, didn't even know the internet existed in 2001.[/quote:e48efcb29d]
    [url=http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html]RFC 1149 - Standard for the transmission of IP datagrams on avian carriers[/url]
  122. avatar RockShandy
    Yes, you're right, social networking has come a long way, too.

    [i:f2057d4fb0]That's what she said.[/i:f2057d4fb0]