I've got one:
On a table in front of you is a big stereo. On this stereo is a CD containing a song by every NI band. You are allowed to choose one single band and pump money behind them to further their career and the standing of this country as far as a music industry is concerned.
You find that you have plenty cash left over to organise and commission the BBC to film live bands in a well founded, famous music hall such as The Empire. This would bring much interest, attract capital, boost confidence and cement some cracks in the local music scene.
You then are allowed to sit back and relax knowing that you really did something to make a difference.
The question is:
Why do you do nothing?
A good opener....thanks for your input Simey, lets see what type of replies are forthcoming. I myself have several questions the first few of which are as follows.
I've heard that the job descriptions for the recently advertised posts within NIMIC (Information Officer & Chief Executive) state that the eventual postholders are expected to operate and achieve criteria as determined by the "Board".
Are the board members those individuals who were elected by the "members"?
My reason for using quotations is that these "members" were "members" of what exactly? I think the whole deal was that "members" were to get their first year "membership" free. Now, to my mind, subscription to, or membership of, any organisation / group would, in essence, necessitate the existence of a group / organisation.
Has NIMIC actually been formally constituted and, if so, when? If NIMIC was not actually constituted until post "membership" then obviously something is awry.
Bearing in mind that the initial free "membership", as offered in November/December 1999, was to be of a one year duration then, surely, in view of the fact that no one I know of has been asked / encouraged to renew / extend their "membership" then all and any previous "memberships" have lapsed, thus negating any supposed board / constitutionalised body and therefore leaving it with no subscribers other than those on the memorandum and articles (if indeed these exist).
This being the case then surely the board are presently acting on behalf of a non-existant "membership"?
Did the much debated and oft promised public meeting of "members" ever take place?
Is it not now high time for "memberships" to be renewed and , as I believe was mooted in the Edmund Report, a new board elected? If not then the soon to be appointed Chief Executive and Information Officer will, in effect, be representing a non existant "membership" and no one other than the initially appointed board members.
This could prove to be most embarrasing for all concerned as, after all, and in view of the sterling work and services which the existing board have thus far provided their "membership" with, there is obviously a very high benchmark / criteria prerequisite for the board or panel of interviewers to rely upon when trying to assess the potential worth / committment / diligence of any prospective appointee.
There was one meeting, which only "industry" people where allowed to attend, but I believe BASIC (then a duo) were smuggled into it, and found it completely ahine, involving as it did Bill Gu(ah)iney being sick in a bin or sthg.
My suspicion is that the current NIMIC 'board', who ever they may be, are well aware that they have completely failed to comply with any of the above constitutional issues vis-a-vis their membership, and the whole enterprise is probably now of dubious legality - however I imagine that they're relying on the fact that no-one would have the time and energy and finances to pursue the matter through the courts, and so they'll get away with it.
I fully intended to apply for the CEO post, until I got the info pack.
There one can see a list of 14 goals the CEO must be pursuing and achieving
within the year long contract..which "may" be renewed....and any five of which would need a team to successfully manage them to a useful extent.
However, the reason why I decided against applying was the fact that the CEO is subject to the whims of the NIMIC pseudocommittee, is responsible for what they have decided and its implementation, and can be designated further tasks according to their whims.
Now, call me stupid or whatever, but I feel it is lunacy to be at the beck and call of a posse of uncommunicative underachievers whose sole product after many years is to advertise for two other people to do the job.
I also doubt the legality of what they're doing as a currently unmandated group, and would strongly advise against giving them the authority they need and desire, but certainly do not remotely deserve.
The music industry deserves better.
Yeah, I mean who the feck chose these "14 goals"?
Were any members of NIMIC asked to approve them?
It's a total farce.
Having elected people onto a committee to "represent" us,
and then have them continually refuse to give us any
information as to their activities other than the phrase
"we are waiting for funding",
we now find out they've been doing things such as
formulating "14 goals" without consulting members in any way.
Edited by: feline1 at: 5/12/01 4:36:51 pm
So does anyone know the current status and composition of the NIMIC committee?
I've heard so many rumours of people resigning out of frustration, committees being dissolved, tyrannical despots invading South American states, etc etc, it's hard know what's true and what's bull.
Does anyone have direct conact with a NIMIC rep? Can they perhaps get a definitive, quoteable status report to keep us all on the straight and narrow?
I say put Shep's answering machine in charge of NIMIC.
At least it listens attentively, and rarely troubles ewe by talking back... :-)
It's hard to. I got some info around Feb from Phil Woolsey and The Grand Wazoo himself, Ross Graham, but nowt since. I'd asked a few questions of Susan Enan, but she got a bit annoyed because I asked them and said that how would you like it etc etc etc....so, if there's ever a re-election for members's reps, take that on board.
I dunno if Chris is still on board, or Phil, or any of the others, but the Politburo as it stood was:
Industry members representatives:
Richard Abbott, Gary Aiken, Stuart Bailie, Paul Brown, Ross Graham, Maurice Jay, and Pearse Moore.
Individual members representatives:
Chris Allen, Susan Enan, Conor Garrett and Phil Wolsey
Marty Neill has since claimed Stuart Bailie isn't a rep, but I've heard different, so those waters are muddied.
So, some may have left, some mightn't, and since they were elected for a year, which expired months ago, no-one know what the truth is.
Scariest thing is, they're unlikely to know either, given the CIA level secrecy apparent.
Well I thought Chris Allen said on Fastfude
(just before, like Peter Hammill, he went on a motorbike to Africa)
that he'd handed in his resignation to NIMIC since he'd
be unable to represent us whilst on a motorbike in Africa,
but the industry peeps kinda expressed total indifference to this,
since clearly they had no interest in having musicians
represented anyway (presumeably since we're all unpolished turds and stuff)
Perhaps Zeb could clear this up?
Phil Woolsey must surely be reachable via Rich9?
I can't be arsed trying to get in touch with Susan Enan again,
cos she just ended up being rude to me last time and
completely failed to follow up on anything she said she'd do.
I have no idea who Conor Garret is in the first place.
In view of the fact that the board appointments have expired is it not time then to elect a new board?
(That is of course if the "memberships" ever were or are still valid).
Was there some sort of masonic vow of secrecy taken by those who were appointed / elected that forbade them from communicating with their "membership" for almost seventeen months?
Why is the administration of the applications for these posts being handled through Derry / Londonderry when the two posts are to be Belfast based?
Why is the CEO salary "negotiable"?
Who will be sitting on the interviewing panel?
On the basis of which criteria will shortlisting of initial applicants be based and who sets these criteria?
Why should the "membership" have any faith in the board or any appointee(s) they should deem suitable?
Has any member of the board, or sectoral representative, ever given a straight answer to a straight question?
If not then why not and are their "titles" even broadly representative of their actions?
Are the "membership" now beginning to realize that they were simply used to elevate (elect) a select group of individuals to a board level only to be jettisoned / ignored for the last seventeen months?
Is there surely not now a case for a vote of no confidence in the present board and the representatives in view of the fact that they will soon be responsible for a budget apportioned to further an industry, the members and activists of which they have singularily ignored since their appointments?
Where did I leave my lighter?
"Are the "membership" now beginning to realize that they were simply used to elevate (elect) a select group of individuals to a board level only to be jettisoned / ignored for the last seventeen months?"
Yup, I think that sums it up nicely.
I simply am not prepared to tolerate any more crap about
"there is nothing to tell ewe" and "we don't have any resources
with which to contact ewe" -
those were never very convincing lines in the first place,
but when we now see the process moving into drawing up
job specs and appointing salaried officers,
there have therefore *unquestionably* been activities
going on which the members might reasonably with to know about
(and moreover HAVE INPUT INTO).
I don't think the brief soundbite aired on "Across the Line"
sufficiently provided that.
Moreover, since we know for a fact that several of committee
members have Internet access, it would be a trivial matter,
not taking more than a few hours (and they've had 17 months)
to set up a simple text based webpage/contact email/email newletter
or the like for members
(And if they plead techno-ignorance of how they would have
set such simple things up, then for gawd's sake why did they
not simply ask some of the membership to help out?! - since ample
web-skills are available therein and would no doubt
gladly have been made available - for example [url]http://www.cv3.com[/url]
has a solid record of supporting local music projects,
such as the Bacardi Best of Belfarce Festival and
Digital T / BelFest .... and of course, there's always this very site!)
Surely there must be some minutes available for inspection
covering the last 17 months activities??
When I heard about NIMIC in the Summer of 1999, and read the Edmund
Report that Autumn (from the PDF on LEDU's website), I honestly,
for the first time in nearly a decade, seriously considered
moving back to live in Belfast, so encouraged was I by the ideas
17 months on, I am dismayed by the farcical state of affairs,
continued lack of any sort of regular news updates,
or public meeting,
and the implied contempt with which the "industry" faction appear
to regard the "ordinary" ( = Creative ) members.
I have no confidence whatsoever in the present committee!
I have no idea whether the committee who I help to elect
regard my membership as still valid, but I don't really care,
cos I don't regard them as still valid.
So yeah I'd bloody well propose a vote of no confidence in them!
There must be plenty of other people on Fastfude who signed up
for membership back in late 1999, and subsequently received voting
papers from Shep in (Feb?) 2000 - probably enough to make some sort
How would we organise such a vote, though?
The most "valid" way would be to send out ballot papers
to all the people who received them the first time round.
However that is problematic, since many of them my subsequently have changed
and also presumeably the committee themselves are the only people who
are in possession of that membership list, and are therefore unlikely
to make it available to a member so that he or she can stage a vote
of no-confidence ;-)
Another way to proceed, since we probably could achieve a quorate
vote through FastFude users alone, would be simply for all NIMIC
members on here to either add their voice to a thread of no confidence,
or send their vote by email to an agreed address -
this would be more ahine though, cos ewe'd be able to
see what way everyone had voted, and we'd have no way to know
if voters were genuine NIMIC members or not.
what do people think?
In many ways, I think, in reality, I came to terms with the idea
that the NIMIC committee were a bunch of heinsters many months ago,
and thus my desire to make a fuss is lessened - I was never looking
for a free lunch in the first place, and when it became clear NIMIC
weren't gonna give me one, I just wrote it off as a bad job and
continued pursuing my music through the existing channels....
however, the fact is, taxpayers' money IS being made available,
and it would be a shame if,
out of sheer fatigue and
jadedness with the way things have been over the last 17 months,
we just all decided to give up on pushing for things to be
done in our interests, and let some quango pursue its own dubious
agenda with funding that was supposed to be for our collective benefit...
erm - "right on" or sthg... :-)
Well, on the basis contained in the posts in this thread, perhaps it is time to do something, to the extent of using the local press by writing letters and possibly alerting one of the more lurid Sunday papers to the scam that has been perpetrated for the last few years.
I know that some of the involved but mute civil servants read the NIMIC stuff here, and probably would HATE to see their names in such a context, but it would be only fitting.
I think the contempt for local musicians that has been shown by this pseudobody be returned.
I think I'll have a word with the Sunday World.They'll love the involvement of public money with an unresponsive oligarchy.
Geekster, could you email me again please? My hotmail account has decided to wipe my last two month's of mail without warning. Thanks, Bill - nice one.
Perhaps the Musicians' Union (of which, like the Feline Dream,
I'm sure ewe're all members) could also play a role in forcing
NIMIC to be representative of its Creative Members interests?
whoops, wrong thread! Edited by: jenl at: 5/13/01 7:40:20 pm
You all deserve answers, lets not let this thread slip away!!
Cue an indifferent riposte by "Chief Mooner".
affirmative action = positive result
Sorry, Faxing Suspended Until After The Election.
Can anybody explain to me - in simple terms - what NIMIC is all about?
Sure. A body tasked with setting up an infrastructure for the NI music industry, involving training, development marketing etc the music in these parts.They're being given a million and a half or thereabouts to do this, they'd been around for years doing nothing, eventually called elections 18 months ago, got elected, and since then haven't communicated with their members on even one occasion, ignored emails,and have now advertised for two people to do the things they've decided.
Oh and yes,their yearly mandate ran out months ago.
They don't like criticism, and regard most musicians around here as troublemakers and timewasters. LEDU has decided that they're to be the official body, and ignores everyone who has reservations about them. A lot of people are up in arms, but can't get through their protective shield of ignoring everybody. But they're still hammering away.That's about it.
It's sort of like "Independence Day" without the spaceships.
Yeah, the acting is about as bad ;-)
Going back to the subject of the first meeting of Nimic.
I was supposed to go with Bill Guiney and Bevis who was playing for the 4 of us at the time.
Couldn't go for various reasons but the point was that I was told that the meeting consisted of failed Belfast musicians complaining about never making it when the so deserved to (not mentioning names) and not a lot of positvity.
I've never heard anything to the contary so am I wrong or right.
Since musicians weren't allowed to attend (and any who were there
had to be smuggled in) I think that's probably utter crap :-)
Moreover, I am utterly sick and tired of this preposterous
discourse that all musicians are lazy untalented unpolishable turds.
It is as insulting as it is non-sensical.
How on earth people with that view can possibly seek to
represent musicians' interests in a body like NIMIC I cannot imagine.
I was just wondering what we all wanted from them.
I thought the idea of them getting behind a band and promoting the @#%$ out of them was a good idea and using the rest of the cash for a tv programme.
But what else do we want from them.
I suggest ewe try reading the Edmund Report for a few
initial pointers - it's available from LEDU or sthg.
Then further suggestions could be raised at the next
public NIMIC meeting...
...oops, sorry there, there's never been one! :-)
After my adventures in the BBC last night, "doing" Across The Line 'n' all, I had the good fortune to bump into a member (Who I shall call "Dr. X") of said NIMIC committee, who I chatted with while waiting for a taxi.
I told Dr. X about the pressing desire for information from the scene at large, and how it would quosh a great many fears and rumours if NIMIC could publish a regular periodical press release / statement explaining what's been happening over the last few months/weeks/whatever.
Given the number of facilities for spreading this info (fastfude, ohyeah, atl, evening session, venues, etc) it should be neither hard nor expensive to do, and even if nothing major has actually taken place over said timescale, at least we'd know by the very existence of the statement that NIMIC existed and functioned.
Dr. X was enthused by this idea and hoped to raise it as an issue at the next meeting. Fingers crossed y'all!
They have meetings?
Do our representatives attend these meetings?
Perhaps I could email one of our representatives
and ask them to table a motion of no confidence in themselves
at one of these meetings? :0)
Well Rog, I've personally raised the matter of informing people with no less than 4 members of the NIMIC committee, with zero results.
I would have thought anyone with a brain knows members should be contacted and how. Especially since lots of other things are communicated by the same people using the same medium....but only for their pet projects.
Aye, ewe see people with Pets are never alone,
ewe can teach them to talk, they can pick up the phone...
I'm not a member (Thank god, sez I!), but surely the whole idea of NIMIC is far fetched? Surely the commitee will not werk without ALL members of the scene being involved or at least represtented. There needs to be an infrastructure to the set-up and each member or rep needs to be held acountabe for different aspects of the 'operation'. There would need to be an independent commitee for the overviewing of dispenced moneys, and then a seperate branch of the same commitee to oversee that the money is used for whats it was supposed to be used for.
Surely if NIMIC is supposed to representing it's members then it should listen to and ONLY listen to it's members and it's memebrs idea's needs? MEMBERS i.e. THE MUSICIANS. And if feline1 is right and they do belive that musicians are unpolished turds, then NIMIC as represtitves of it's memebers ceases to be! How could you elect Hitler to represent the needs of Jews? (Perhaps a strong meteaphore but same effect!)
The luaghable thing about this whole episode is the fact that they called themselves 'Representitives'! How can you possible represent someone or a group of people without knowing what they want or need. I laughed at the thought of theses 'reps' being uncontactable!
On another point. How can a £1,500,000 purse be used solely for "Promoting the fuk outa 1 band"? Sureley money like that should be used to build as solid foundation and launch-pad for all Norn Iron bands to work on.
It could Help:
(i) venues build stages with lights and great PA's, to enhance enjoyment for band and punter. This will help punters come back to the venues.
(ii) make rules and guidlines around venue and band promotion in the city.
(iii) Offer an office, complete with phone and fax numbers, e-mail address, and website, which could help bands get in touch with venues, manageers, promoters, record companies, rehersal rooms, duplication companies, distributers, even stuff like: van hire, gear hire, bus hire,
etc. etc. etc.
(iv) Offer a rock-solid representitive when venues and managers (or whoever) land you in bother or don't let you play untill 11:30pm and the like. A strong representation like this could insure that Bands aren't left vunerable to being ripped off or treated badly.
(v) Offer a representation that could renigotiate the comletely fascist and ahine, Band-venue pay system that currently exists.
An organisation like this could actually kick start the industry here.
I don't see why it isn't happening now, although, of course i'm only an 'Unpolished turd'.
Forkoid, ewe see, none of the issues ewe raise can be addressed without the committee allowing some sort of feedback (public meetings, etc) to take place, betweeen the members and the committee those members elected to represent them.
Perhaps we could have a stab at collecting email addresses for committee:
Exactly my point! You need to have some sort of system were the represtentitives can acctually hear the voices of the representees!! That's what was so laughable!
It kind of defeates the porpous if you elect a rep and he/she goes of and works to thier own agenda, which in NIMIC's case happens to be NO AGENDA!
I refer the honourable catlike one to that post above , see? up there, on the previous page. Where I mused over the current validity of the representatives, memberships and board. As far as I can ascertain the year is up and, as such, membership renewal, representative and board elections are required as was mooted in the oft "Cherry picked" Edmund Report.
Why are the erstwhile membership not voicing their dissatisfaction in their droves? Have they been offered a second year of free "membership" in exchange for their silence or has the NIMIC inability to communicate infested the very lifeblood of its so called "membership"?
Either way, I believe that something must be done before Dr X and his cronies get away with "The great rock 'n' roll swindle".
Forkoid, it's not to promote one band, and the current ads for two posts are working towards fulfilling your point three, with some additional impossibilities stacked on top.
In addition,the industry sector is well..some might say over.....represented, with a built in majority in terms of numbers with respect to turd reps.
Anyway, the annoying thing is it's a sort of lampoon on democracy. Only it's serious. And they're making decisions on what they think is best for turds.
Well, here's all the email addresses of NIMIC committee
I could find, can anyone help out with the rest?
Being able to contact the committee "as one" in such
a fashion would be a useful place from which to start
dialogue, n'est-ce pas?
Stuart Bailie email@example.com
Maurice Jay firstname.lastname@example.org
Chris Allen email@example.com
Susan Enan firstname.lastname@example.org
Conor Garrett c/o:
you can probably get hold of Conor (aka Dr. X) via Across The Line too - email@example.com
Oh right I see! So that's who Conor Garrett is -
Across the Line's bio describes him as a "journalist"
Does that not make him part of the "industry" then,
rather than the "unpolishable turds" section?
So 25% of the musicians' reps are not even musicians.
Still, we voted for him... :-/
Seemed like a very sound bloke to me. He's a Bowie addict by the look of his profile, so you two should get on grand
Yes, I noticed his commendable "Hansa" tendencies :-)
The issue is not anyone's personal "soundness", it
is in the Unpolishable Turd Membership's confidence
in them to represent our interests.
yeah, I was only pulling yer leg
anyway, as I said earlier, Conor did seem to be quite interested in hearing my comments the other night, which was promising.
Elected NIMIC Committee member in "QUITE INTERESTED IN HEARING COMMENTS" shocker! :-O
Good start to the NIMIC FAQ, Roger y'all.
I wonder if ewe'd consider adding some stuff along these lines:
The blue-print for what NIMIC might be like was set out in April 1999,
by local mareketing consultant John Edmund,
in a document called Establishing a Sectoral-Lead-Body
to Support the Development of the Music Industry Northern Ireland,
(commonly referred to a "the Edmund Report").
The document was comissioned by the official government body LEDU ( [url]http://www.ledu-ni.gov.uk[/url] ). As their website says, "LEDU is the lead agency for local economic development in Northern Ireland. It helps businesses which normally employ fewer than 50 people in the manufacturing and tradeable services sectors."
The Edmund report is available to download free from LEDU's website
at [url]http://www.ledu-ni.gov.uk/info/docs/MusicRep.pdf[/url] , in PDF format.
You will need free Adobe's Acrobat Reader to read it,
which can be downloaded
Also, the Edmund report lists "Freerange" beside Ross Graham's name.
592 views and 45 posts later and still not a response from a single elected representative. What does that tell you?
Perhaps they are all locked in John Edmund's caravan in Dongdiddlegdee,
drinking potcheen and polishing turds.
how about making a direct request to all the (contactable) members of the committee, asking them for
a) a statement updating the "members" (if we still are) of the current status and format of NIMIC.
b) details as to the actual electoral process for committee selection, terms of office, requirements & obligations, etc.
c) a request for urgent consideration of the creation of a new post as Press Officer to ensure the simplified propogation of future information .
Yes, I think we should put together a letter like
that, and get it collectively signed by as many
NIMIC members (if we are still members) as we can muster.
Alternatively I was thinking as asking the [url]http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk[/url]
Rog & Catman.....points well made. Now just hope that your fellow members don't sit back scratching their chins on this one. Act!
One of my favourite Dr Who innuednos was always when someone would cry
"We must act! Now!" :-)
(and let's not forget "I assure ewe - there is no plot!" :-) Edited by: feline1 at: 5/18/01 2:06:51 pm
I will sign that letter willingly. There's too much of importance at stake for the scene at large to let this slide. I know some people don't really appreciate the need for NIMIC; but if they read the Edmund report and see exactly what is being flagged up for the music industry then perhaps the point will become clearer. But anyhow, I'm definitely there.
would anyone like to volunteer a draft letter then?
If pushed..even very gently..I'll do it.
Oh g'wan then.
If ewe do that bit,
I'll then show the results of all that to the M.U.
Right. I'm starting a new thread. Look for the NIMIC No confidence vote thread
"the 'board' have been busily laying down the groundwork for the infrastructure of the analytical waffling systems of musical industrial redevelopment changing system."
they are doing stuff...the people on the board allegedly have been ferreting away working out what it is they are GOING to do...they don't seem to know any of us/you and hence there's been no contact...it's all starting once they DO appoint the CEO and other guy (information officer?)...once those people actually are paid to do something they will and the £1500000 hasn't been touched yet...although the chief of the board (can't remember name) is (ALLEGEDLY APPARENTLY ACCORDING TO SOMEONE WHO DEFINITELY IS NOT ME) applying for CEO...hmmmm....but no it's just taken them a while to fart about being NIMIC and i'm sure it WILL all start doing SOMETHING sometime soon. potentially.
remember it's all voluntary so far and therefore it hasn't all been the most productive project ever but i think once they get their collective ass in gear then we'll start to see what it is they have in store...
what do i know?
it all sounds like a pile of steaming horse poo to me but the above is what drifted over the dining room table at lunchtime.
i think i'll apply for CEO too. Edited by: Niall Harden at: 5/19/01 5:26:51 pm
You're too late. The closing date was yesterday.
So, let's get this right, the chairman was able to help draw up the job specs for a job he was about to apply for.
Interesting. This gets nicer by the moment. That'll explain the job specs.
And tell your da they DO know us, since we applied for membership and actually VOTED over a year ago, so someone is telling him porkies there.
They've had a year as an elected committee and several years before that as a steering committee to get arzes into gear. Stuff that. Let's get them out. They've had their chance.
so it's, like, a revolution. or summat.
we could like forma NIMIK ho are like good and stuff...
well i guess £1,500,000 would have helped that.
"it's all starting once they DO appoint the CEO and other guy (information officer?)...once those people actually are paid to do something they will and the £1500000 hasn't been touched yet...although the chief of the board (can't remember name) is applying for CEO..."
What a positively wildly absurd notion. Surely his, or for that matter any member of the current board, having been involved in the drafting of the job specs would preclude him from applying?
Perhaps we should change the name of this thread to "NIMIC...jobs for the boys anyone"?
No, actually, I hear what they've done is
invested in a large mirror, and a copy of "TROUT MASK REPLICA"
by Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band, so they
can ewse a special "executive version" of musical chairs:
Each member of the current committee takes it
in turns to sit in front of the mirror
and interviews themselves (using a set of special
preset questions) to see whether they can be
Chief Executive Officer (that's "CEO", jargon fans...),
whilst Trout Mask plays in the background...
...if the song "SHE'S TOO MUCH FOR MY MIRROR" comes
on while ewer in the "hot seat" so to speak,
ewe're "out" and thus they keep going rahnd and rahnd
until the last one left is the winner! :-)
Thre's enough here to take to the Ombudsman if a current committee member gets the post.